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Subaru Legacy/Outback "Check Engine" Light Problems

406 messages,  Last post on Mar 07, 2013 at 11:38 AM

You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback Forum.

What is this discussion about? Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Wagon

Messages Page 38 of 41

#369 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [mcharlie] by winter2

Sep 03, 2012 (7:35 am)

Replying to: mcharlie (Aug 30, 2012 8:26 am)
I have performed de-carboning and intake cleaning on my own for a good number of years. Never had a warranty issue and the car actually ran better. The issue with ethanol in fuel is that it binds with the moisture to some degree or another and in spite of the supposedly better filter technology, it still gets into the injection system. This is especially crucial if the engine has direct injection. Water can destroy injectors in a heartbeat.
 
On another note, I have been speaking with independent auto repair shops, so far three of them, and have been asking them that if they had the choice between a Subaru Outback or a Honda CRV with AWD, which would they take? So far it is 3-0 for the Honda. All say that Honda has better engineering, and two have made comments about Subaru head gasket issues and oil leakage. One told me that he has seen and worked on 2009 and 2010 Outbacks with about 100K miles on them that required new head gaskets. They were naturally aspirated and not turbo and had received proper care and maintenance. I am going to speak with a few more independent shops before I make up my mind, but it does not bode well for Subaru. I like the car and it drives nicely plus you see tons of them on the road but to hear what the independent shops have to say is disturbing.

#370 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by saedave

Sep 03, 2012 (9:10 am)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 03, 2012 7:35 am)
One told me that he has seen and worked on 2009 and 2010 Outbacks with about 100K miles on them that required new head gaskets. They were naturally aspirated and not turbo
 
There is a new engine in 2013 Outbacks that has the head gasket problem solved. It was first used in the Forester for two model years so it has on-the-road proof of reliability. Earlier and current turbo Subaru engines use a different block that does not have the gasket problem.

#371 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [saedave] by winter2

Sep 03, 2012 (4:27 pm)

Replying to: saedave (Sep 03, 2012 9:10 am)
So, if I purchase the 2012 Outback with the 2.5L four cylinder, then how much of a chance will there be of blown head gaskets? I keep my cars for 12-15 years before retiring them.
 
Would I be better off getting the Forester if it already has the new head gasket design?

#372 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by saedave

Sep 04, 2012 (6:15 am)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 03, 2012 4:27 pm)
Would I be better off getting the Forester if it already has the new head gasket design?
 
Yes, the design is not just a new head gasket but a a new cylinder head that has different cooling water flow. Either a 2012 Forester OR a 2013 Outback has the new design. Interior passenger room is almost identical, but the shorter Forester has less cargo room. If you keep your car 12-15 years 2012 vs. 2013 depreciation differences, if any, are not significant.

#373 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [saedave] by winter2

Sep 04, 2012 (9:43 am)

Replying to: saedave (Sep 04, 2012 6:15 am)
Saedave,
 
Thank you for your response. It is helpful. I have been doing further research by calling independent repair shops that deal with all brands of cars and trucks. So far I have spoken with seven shops and the score is six for Honda and one tie.
 
Some of the main points are:
 
1. Reliability and engineering. The six shops said that the Hondas are more robust overall.
2. After market parts: many more are available for the CR-V than the Subaru and they cost less.
3. Head gasket issue with the Subaru. Several shops mentioned this without prompting with some shops talking about redoing head gaskets in 2009 and 2010 Outbacks.
4. Company backing of their respective product. Several shops told me that Honda does a better job of backing their product than Subaru and I believe that one or two posters here have said much the same.
5. I am a bit scared of the CVT. I understand how they work and that they are a good way to get more MPGs. If they do fail, I understand that repairing them is very expensive.
 
I drove the Outback and really liked it and sat in the Forester and liked the airiness of the passenger compartment as well as the visibility out of the car. The one cubic foot of cargo capacity extra in the Outback is offset by the shape of the cargo area in the Forester.
 
I am not trying to poop on the Subaru but this will probably be the last new car I purchase and I want something that is dead reliable and easy for me to maintain. Based on my findings, a Honda it will probably be.

#374 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by ateixeira

Sep 04, 2012 (11:48 am)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 04, 2012 9:43 am)
Odds of a coolant leak from the head gaskets on the FA/FB block are roughly zero because the coolant no longer flows through the gaskets.
 
Honda has its own set of issues, trannies for V6 models and A/C compressor for recent CR-Vs.
 
Let me correct myself - ALL brands have their issues, but either of these is certainly far above average overall.

#375 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [ateixeira] by winter2

Sep 07, 2012 (11:42 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 04, 2012 11:48 am)
I understand your response. But I still am wondering why most independent shops that I spoke with have told me to get a Honda versus the Subaru. If they are relatively equal vehicles, why the difference of opinion?

#376 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by ateixeira

Sep 07, 2012 (12:25 pm)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 07, 2012 11:42 am)
Because shops tend to work on cars that are out of warranty.
 
The shortest warranty is 3 years or so, really it's 5 years for powertrain.
 
So those mechanics are looking at cars 5+ years old, or 2007 models and older.
 
The other Subaru weak spot, BTW, was wheel bearings on the Impreza and Forester. Forester moved to the Legacy's sealed type design and complaints dropped.
 
Fortunately we haven't seen a frequent issue pop up again and again since those two, fingers crossed.

#377 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [ateixeira] by winter2

Sep 08, 2012 (7:33 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 07, 2012 12:25 pm)
I understand that the shops see mostly out of warranty vehicles, but now another issue to be concerned about, wheel bearings. As you state, Subaru went to a sealed unit and so far so good.
 
However, what about those vehicles in which the owner drives 60K miles in less than five years? As I understand most car warranties, it is either time or mileage, which ever comes first. That would mean I would probably need to purchase an extended warranty to say 100K or more miles for the drivetrain.
 
I have looked at the Honda forum and I am aware that they have their issues too. I think a few more calls/visits to shops and dealers will give me the information I need.
 
As emissions get tighter and fuel economy standards rise, cars in general will become more complex and more troublesome. I find that PZEV Subarus produce less power than their non_PZEV brothers. The same holds true for Kia and Hyundai. I find it funny that you need to burn more fuel to get cleaner emissions. I know Honda and Subaru have good in-house diesels that they sell in Europe. It would be nice to see them in the U.S.

#378 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by xwesx

Sep 08, 2012 (10:24 pm)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 08, 2012 7:33 am)
YES! I would love to see the Subaru diesel here!
 
I'm not sure that the PZEV has less power for Subaru, at least not the Forester. I'm thinking PZEV was actually rated a couple HP higher for my model year - 2010. I doubt it's noticeable either way. The EJ25 in my car can be quite spunky with the five-speed when I ask it to be.
 
It's a solid car overall.

Messages Page 38 of 41

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