Ask the Car People.SM


Subaru Legacy/Outback "Check Engine" Light Problems

406 messages,  Last post on Mar 07, 2013 at 11:38 AM

You are in the Subaru Legacy & Outback Forum.

What is this discussion about? Subaru Legacy, Subaru Outback, Wagon

Messages Page 38 of 41

#367 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by mcharlie

Aug 30, 2012 (8:26 am)

Replying to: winter2 (Aug 30, 2012 6:35 am)
{{I also know that some local Subaru dealers offer intake and combustion chamber cleaning services (chemical)
 
 Money maker, that, as a rule, has no benefit to the operation or maintenance of the vehicle. Like undercoating a car back in the 60's. Easy money, high profit.no value. Now, in the early 70's, BMW DID have a serious problem with crud build up in the entire air induction system, from the MAF through the head. So bad, in fact, all devices had to be pulled and cleaned with walnut shell blasting. Talk about an expense to the vehicle owner! Datsun (remember them...before Nissan?!!)...used to sell an chemical fuel injection cleaner treatment, it was quite a involved setup, what with hooking up all the tubes and hoses to the system. (Usually the 260Z) Oh, and *Trained* (sic) Subaru technicians performed the service, not car owners. Seen this dodge before....I worked as a dealership tech all the way through service department co-ordinater in my career. I have seen first hand how manufacturers get out of doing a service under warranty. I saw Saab buy it big time when their 900S models started burning up Garret turbochargers. Factory said it was owner abuse..ie: not letting the turbo spin down before turning the engine off. They would replace the first turbo under warranty, but after that, the owner was on the hook for a $2000.00 repair. A lawsuit took care of that policy....... Long story short, just make sure your Subaru dealer says it is ok for you to perform the cleaning service..and to be safe, get it in writing, to cover your interests.
 
{{What you maybe experiencing in the winter is the ethanol picking up any moisture in the fuel tank and pulling it into the fuel system, thus the loss in performance
 
No, Subaru's do not run well on ethanol. And the ethanol is not in the fuel to control moisture absorption from winter's higher humidity...I'm not sure what the emission reducing process of ethanol in gasoline is, but the powers to be think it works. (The key here is 'thinks') Besides, the new fuel filters do a good job of separating moisture out of the fuel before letting it through to the fuel system. MC

#368 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [mcharlie] by jd_24

Aug 31, 2012 (8:35 am)

Replying to: mcharlie (Aug 30, 2012 8:26 am)
Here in Minnesota we run 10% ethanol year round. Both of my Subarus run just fine and get great MPG. (2001 Outback and 2012 Impreza) Winter blend gas changes many additives and not just ethanol. There is a winter blend gas here in MN too, but the ethanol amount stays the same.

#369 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [mcharlie] by winter2

Sep 03, 2012 (7:35 am)

Replying to: mcharlie (Aug 30, 2012 8:26 am)
I have performed de-carboning and intake cleaning on my own for a good number of years. Never had a warranty issue and the car actually ran better. The issue with ethanol in fuel is that it binds with the moisture to some degree or another and in spite of the supposedly better filter technology, it still gets into the injection system. This is especially crucial if the engine has direct injection. Water can destroy injectors in a heartbeat.
 
On another note, I have been speaking with independent auto repair shops, so far three of them, and have been asking them that if they had the choice between a Subaru Outback or a Honda CRV with AWD, which would they take? So far it is 3-0 for the Honda. All say that Honda has better engineering, and two have made comments about Subaru head gasket issues and oil leakage. One told me that he has seen and worked on 2009 and 2010 Outbacks with about 100K miles on them that required new head gaskets. They were naturally aspirated and not turbo and had received proper care and maintenance. I am going to speak with a few more independent shops before I make up my mind, but it does not bode well for Subaru. I like the car and it drives nicely plus you see tons of them on the road but to hear what the independent shops have to say is disturbing.

#370 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by saedave

Sep 03, 2012 (9:10 am)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 03, 2012 7:35 am)
One told me that he has seen and worked on 2009 and 2010 Outbacks with about 100K miles on them that required new head gaskets. They were naturally aspirated and not turbo
 
There is a new engine in 2013 Outbacks that has the head gasket problem solved. It was first used in the Forester for two model years so it has on-the-road proof of reliability. Earlier and current turbo Subaru engines use a different block that does not have the gasket problem.

#371 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [saedave] by winter2

Sep 03, 2012 (4:27 pm)

Replying to: saedave (Sep 03, 2012 9:10 am)
So, if I purchase the 2012 Outback with the 2.5L four cylinder, then how much of a chance will there be of blown head gaskets? I keep my cars for 12-15 years before retiring them.
 
Would I be better off getting the Forester if it already has the new head gasket design?

#372 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by saedave

Sep 04, 2012 (6:15 am)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 03, 2012 4:27 pm)
Would I be better off getting the Forester if it already has the new head gasket design?
 
Yes, the design is not just a new head gasket but a a new cylinder head that has different cooling water flow. Either a 2012 Forester OR a 2013 Outback has the new design. Interior passenger room is almost identical, but the shorter Forester has less cargo room. If you keep your car 12-15 years 2012 vs. 2013 depreciation differences, if any, are not significant.

#373 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [saedave] by winter2

Sep 04, 2012 (9:43 am)

Replying to: saedave (Sep 04, 2012 6:15 am)
Saedave,
 
Thank you for your response. It is helpful. I have been doing further research by calling independent repair shops that deal with all brands of cars and trucks. So far I have spoken with seven shops and the score is six for Honda and one tie.
 
Some of the main points are:
 
1. Reliability and engineering. The six shops said that the Hondas are more robust overall.
2. After market parts: many more are available for the CR-V than the Subaru and they cost less.
3. Head gasket issue with the Subaru. Several shops mentioned this without prompting with some shops talking about redoing head gaskets in 2009 and 2010 Outbacks.
4. Company backing of their respective product. Several shops told me that Honda does a better job of backing their product than Subaru and I believe that one or two posters here have said much the same.
5. I am a bit scared of the CVT. I understand how they work and that they are a good way to get more MPGs. If they do fail, I understand that repairing them is very expensive.
 
I drove the Outback and really liked it and sat in the Forester and liked the airiness of the passenger compartment as well as the visibility out of the car. The one cubic foot of cargo capacity extra in the Outback is offset by the shape of the cargo area in the Forester.
 
I am not trying to poop on the Subaru but this will probably be the last new car I purchase and I want something that is dead reliable and easy for me to maintain. Based on my findings, a Honda it will probably be.

#374 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [winter2] by ateixeira

Sep 04, 2012 (11:48 am)

Replying to: winter2 (Sep 04, 2012 9:43 am)
Odds of a coolant leak from the head gaskets on the FA/FB block are roughly zero because the coolant no longer flows through the gaskets.
 
Honda has its own set of issues, trannies for V6 models and A/C compressor for recent CR-Vs.
 
Let me correct myself - ALL brands have their issues, but either of these is certainly far above average overall.

#375 of 406 Re: Chemical Cleaning of a Subaru Engine [ateixeira] by winter2

Sep 07, 2012 (11:42 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Sep 04, 2012 11:48 am)
I understand your response. But I still am wondering why most independent shops that I spoke with have told me to get a Honda versus the Subaru. If they are relatively equal vehicles, why the difference of opinion?

Messages Page 38 of 41

To POST a message, please Sign In.

Advertisement

Browse by Category

Browse by Vehicle
   View All Vehicles

Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
View All Topics

Edmunds Community

Advertisement