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Sedans BMW 3-Series 2009 BMW 3-Series
276 messages, Last post on Aug 25, 2009 at 9:57 PM
You are in the BMW 3-Series Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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Replying to: shipo (Nov 17, 2008 5:43 pm) In essence, I do not want to own a car which has a single mechanical point of failure which can cause a 8000 dollar repair (w\o labor). As otherwise, I like the car (and the BMW make), I want to make sure the next car I buy does not have such a bad design (to be clear, I am ok with the pump\filter in the tank as long as it can be replaced if it goes (as they do sometimes especially with the introduction of ethanol in the fuel). Therefore I have two questions: 1. Does anyone know if the 2008 or 2009 SULEV engines have a non serviceable fuel pump\filter? 2. Does a dealership in a SULEV state have to sell the SULEV engine only (or can they sell a non SULEV engine? From what I understand, the non SULEV engine does not have the pump\filter SEALED into the gas tank. In other words it is replaceable. Also, I do not beleive in 'lifetime' filters.
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Replying to: teebone1958 (Nov 18, 2008 7:01 am) A couple of other things that don't feel right about your posts: 1) I've combed through all of my BMW ordering information and can find no evidence to support your claim that SULEV cars are only sold in CARB states. Per my information, every BMW sold in the U.S. carries the same SULEV rating. 2) The $8,000 number you keep posting sounds more than a bit exaggerated for a fuel pump replacement, even if it does require the entire tank. I'm thinking that whom ever quoted you that number is expecting to make lots of money off of you. Best regards, Shipo
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Replying to: shipo (Nov 18, 2008 8:04 am) Basically, in CARB-following states, a certain percentage of the models offered for sale by a manufacturer must comply with certain emissions levels (referred to as LEV, ULEV or SULEV). BMW has chosen to make some of their lower-end models (128s and 328s) in SULEV-variants for sale in these states. The SULEV-variants have a slightly different engine with a reportedly minor performance reduction to comply with the required standards. This allows the car maker to continue to produce its higher-performance models (e.g. 335i, M3, et al.) free of CARB compliance concerns. If you dig deeper, you can find the 328 reviews listed for both SULEV and non SULEV models. Here is an example link (note both type of models listed): http://www.thecarconnection.com/modelintro/bmw_3-series_2009 In response to #2, the price is for the entire gas tank assembly including all the pumps, filters, and electronics in contains. This has been verified through a second dealership. Once again, the problem is the design of the SEALED tank which prohibits the replacement of the contained mechanical part (fuel pump) and filter. Thanks anyway....
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Replying to: teebone1958 (Nov 18, 2008 8:40 am) Once again, the problem is the design of the SEALED tank which prohibits the replacement of the contained mechanical part (fuel pump) and filter. I agree with Shipo, someone's trying to scare you into a new car. Have them pull up the ETK and show you the part number and MSRP.
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Replying to: roadburner (Nov 18, 2008 12:51 pm) Automatic for sale in California, Mass, New York, and Vermont are fitted with an updated motor identified as PZEV (Partial Zero Evaporative Emissions) M56 B25 which is a further development of the M54 2.5 liter motor with these changes: - Duel down-stream catalytic converters with high cell density technology - Wide-band Oxygen sensors mounted upstream of the catalysts - High-pressure , four outlet fuel injectors - Revised VANOS system with a fixed position for reduced emissions at start-up - Secondary Air Injection system with mass air flow sensor - Carbon filter added to the air intake to reduce hydrocarbon emissions - Stainless steel fuel injectors and fuel rail, tank vent valve, and evaporative canister - Stainless steel fuel tank with intergrated fuel pump, fuel filter, and fuel pressure regulator - YES - due to the nature of the sealed stainless steel fuel tank with it's intergrated pump, filter, pressure regulator, a component failure requires replacement of the fuel tank as a complete unit. It is not serviceable !  - Aluminum cylinder head cover with intergrated ventilation valve - The external heat exchange surfaces of the radiator are coated with a catalyst to reduce ozone in the air drawn through the radiator (see sticker and funny looking parts when you open the hood) - Pistons with 3mm fire lands Based upon the item listed above (integrated gas tank), I would not buy this car on principal alone. I do not think it takes an automotive engineer to figure out that this is a very bad design (and idea), especially since these forums are filled with posts regarding fuel pump issues. Thanks Again. |
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Replying to: teebone1958 (Nov 18, 2008 1:21 pm)
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Replying to: xeye (Nov 18, 2008 4:16 pm) From Tischer For M56 (this is the SULEV engine) *******>********> Item Number MSRP Core Price Price 16116763569 $7,692.49 $0.00 $6,153.99 FUEL TANK __________________________________________________ ____________________________________ for M54 (this is the non SULEV engine) *******>********> 16116766940 $415.95 $0.00 $332.76 Fuel system - Fuel supply - Fuel tank Fuel tank, 325i, ci, 330i, ci 2001 - 2003, 330xi 2002-2004 w/sulev For the M54 engine, the fuel filter is an easy 20 min DIY as it's under the car, underneath the driver's seat. The M56 is configured as one piece (as I have been stating). Believe what you want, but I will go with the facts. You might want to do some due diligence and look things up next time before you post.... I am interested in facts not opinions, so I obviously made a mistake coming to this site. Have a good day! |
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Replying to: teebone1958 (Nov 18, 2008 5:27 pm) This is why independent repair shops have the best technicians! They figure out how to fix things. |
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Replying to: teebone1958 (Nov 18, 2008 5:27 pm) Description Supplement Qty Part Number Price FUEL TANK, METAL WITH FILLER PIPE 1 16116763569 $2,985.30 Here's the link... http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=AZ33&mospid=47721&btnr=16_0533&hg=- 16&fg=05 "RealOEM.com" does list the M54 and M56 engines as being available in the E46. And there is definitely a difference between the M54 plastic tank with outboard pump and the metal M56 tank with integral pump. The questions I would ask are - 1. Why does a $3000 "plug and play" part cost $4000 to install? I know plenty of mechanics that could replace the tank in one day (at about $80/hr, that's maybe $700 labor). 2. Is it possible to fit the M54 fuel tank and related accessories/plumbing to an M56 car? Finally, according to "RealOEM.com," the E90 and E92 328i are offered with 2 engines - the N52 (ULEV) and N51 (SULEV). According to the website though, both of these engines have plastic fuel tanks with serviceable fuel pumps (part #16147194207 for the N51). The 335i only has the N54. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=VC53&mospid=49546&btnr=16_0688&hg=- 16&fg=15 Bottom line? It looks like it's not an issue with the current line of BMW's - just the early SULEV cars from the early 2000's. I found lots of discussion on the web - just google some combination of the words N51 SULEV BMW engine and see what comes up.
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Replying to: xeye (Nov 18, 2008 4:16 pm) |
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