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What is this discussion about? Mazda MAZDASPEED MAZDA3, MINI Cooper, Car Comparisons, Wagon

Messages Page 5 of 6

#36 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [roadburner] by itssavvy

Jan 11, 2008 (11:11 pm)

Replying to: roadburner (Jan 11, 2008 9:46 pm)
Wow someone is getting rather personal. I regret you felt the need to go there.
 
While I likely don't have the snow on the roof that you do, you can pull the thermometer out, and it would reveal that I still have more degrees than you do.
 
You have again supported my argument. Eight "Bimmers" since 1983? Was that with or without Cappuccino? I've owned a total of three cars since 1996, and the number is that high because one of them was totaled in an accident in 1999. The remaining two were/are Mazdas (I never said I owned and Acura or an Infiniti...check the reference and fight illiteracy, I was referring to my friends). That said, I would be proud to own a TL S-Type. It's a better use of power and superior handling when compared to any Accord.
 
Nothing false about the data. Check C&D, check CR, check Motor Trend, check...oh yeah, EDMUNDS. They'll all say the same thing, outstanding engineering, great driving experience, thoughtful interiors, but no longevity.
 
For a good laugh, I would pay any reputable automobile correspondent to say out loud, "German cars are more reliable in the long term than Japanese cars." without so much as cracking a smile. It would be tantamount to some dry Bob Newhart humor.

#37 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [itssavvy] by roadburner

Jan 11, 2008 (11:43 pm)

Someone is getting rather personal with all this. Sorry you felt the need to go there.
 
Translation:
 
You've again supported my argument. You've owned eight "Bimmers" since 1983.
 
That's because I wanted to- not because I had to. Variety is the spice of life...
 
Nothing false about my data.
 
Really? Lets see...
 
Check CR
 
OK, it seems that they currently recommend the Three, Five, and Seven. And I think they added the X3 this year as well. That said, I get nervous when the safety weenies at CR like the same cars I do. When they recently endorsed the MS3 I was almost tempted to sell it...
 
check Car and Driver
 
Refresh my memory, just how many times has a BMW been on the CD "10 Best List"? Since 1992 I think. Now, let's see if you can point me to a negative CD long term test of a BMW.
 
check Motor Trend
 
You're joking, right?
 
oh yeah, EDMUNDS
 
Fair enough; here are some of their Long Term Test comments:
 
1999 BMW 328i: "If you can find a way to embrace or excuse the cultural implications of the propeller badge -- and if you can find any way at all to fit a 3 Series car into your budget -- we highly recommend it. Go easy on the options -- this car is best when driven."
 
2002 745Li: "After two years of driving this incredible car, we enthusiastically endorse it — the car that is, not the iDrive system. BMW has improved on the previous car's already excellent handling, while crafting a larger interior that oozes comfort and grace. We will admit that the iDrive feature becomes more user-friendly with time, but it has, for the most part, been unreliable and frustrating.
We are tempted to put a caveat on our endorsement of the car as a whole simply because of the early glitches in our iDrive module. We required two module replacements and two "resets" in the first seven months — that is unacceptable in a $75,000 car. The stability we've enjoyed in the iDrive system in our last months of ownership has somewhat restored our confidence in BMW's engineers."
They did ding Munich on the iDrive- and rightfully so. But they still recommend the car. Hmmm...
 
2002 330i: "Our ownership experience was genuinely pleasant. We took in the car once for maintenance and for minor detailing prior to reselling it. While our 330i's clean bill of health does not vouch for a problem-free future, the car certainly met our expectations in terms of quality and dependability during its first two years."
 
2005 X3: "Unfortunately, one summer day, our X3 was the innocent victim in a rear-end collision. The BMW was hauled away by flatbed and spent three weeks at the body shop while the mechanical and body repairs were made. The total repair bill for that single accident was a whopping $7,901.52.
If we were forced to note one serious complaint about our 18,000 miles in the X3, it would likely be the time it was tied up in the body shop. While the stiff city ride that comes with the sport package was not always appreciated, we do value the handling and the highway manners of the X3. With its manageable size, sporty nature and new DVD system, the X3 was one of the most popular vehicles in our test garage."
 
2001 530i: "With its odometer pushing 75,000 miles, it was hard not to be impressed with our 530i. There are new cars that don't feel as solid on the road, and anyone who saw it wouldn't have guessed it was a five-year-old car well on its way to 100,000 miles. The materials inside still looked good, and there was rarely a feature that we wished it had. If we judged it on nothing more than how it felt at speed on the highway or while cutting through a winding road, we would have nothing to complain about.
The purpose of a long-term test, however, is to look a little deeper, and in this case we didn't have to look far to see the downside to owning this BMW. We liked the 530i when it worked, but far too often it was plagued by nagging problems that required constant attention from the dealer. None of the problems left us stranded on the roadside, but sitting at the dealer isn't much better."
Now, the cooling system on the E39s CAN be a problem I'll admit, but Edmund's dealer hosed them but good. My local dealer or my indie shop would have fixed the problems for up to 75% less. I still wish I had kept my wife's E39 for my work beater instead of my Jeep TJ, but at the time I needed to keep a domestic vehicle in the garage for job-related reasons.
 
2006 330i: "With the exception of $1.39 for a gallon of wiper fluid and the $334.19 replacement of a damaged tire, BMW's four-year/50,000-mile maintenance warranty covered all costs on the upkeep of our 3 Series. A radio static issue requiring the rear window to be replaced also fell under warranty.
BMW raised the bar again with the 330i. We welcomed it into our fleet with open arms and it left its mark on us. Its departure took with it several editors desperate for one more chance to drive while the rest lay in tears. It will be missed."
 
Wow, you nailed it; Edmunds DOES hate BMWs...
 
Look, you like Mazdas, and you appear to value reliability above all else. I like BMWs. Lots of them(not to mention MS3s, Speed Triples, and 993s). And I'll suffer the odd glitch or two in exchange for an involving RWD driving experience on the street as well as the track. The thing is, I don't feel compelled to slam your choices in order to justify my decisions. But hey, if it helps you to feel better about what you drive, keep telling yourself that BMWs are all about hype and status. I just know that I don't lie awake at night wondering if I should have bought something else.

#38 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [roadburner] by itssavvy

Jan 12, 2008 (5:30 pm)

Replying to: roadburner (Jan 11, 2008 11:43 pm)
1999 BMW 328i: "If you can find a way to embrace or excuse the cultural implications of the propeller badge -- and if you can find any way at all to fit a 3 Series car into your budget -- we highly recommend it. Go easy on the options -- this car is best when driven."
 
- No mention of reliability
 
2002 745Li: "After two years of driving this incredible car, we enthusiastically endorse it — the car that is, not the iDrive system. BMW has improved on the previous car's already excellent handling, while crafting a larger interior that oozes comfort and grace. We will admit that the iDrive feature becomes more user-friendly with time, but it has, for the most part, been unreliable and frustrating.
We are tempted to put a caveat on our endorsement of the car as a whole simply because of the early glitches in our iDrive module. We required two module replacements and two "resets" in the first seven months — that is unacceptable in a $75,000 car. The stability we've enjoyed in the iDrive system in our last months of ownership has somewhat restored our confidence in BMW's engineers."
They did ding Munich on the iDrive- and rightfully so. But they still recommend the car. Hmmm...
 
The only mention of reliability is negative
 
2002 330i: "Our ownership experience was genuinely pleasant. We took in the car once for maintenance and for minor detailing prior to reselling it. While our 330i's clean bill of health does not vouch for a problem-free future, the car certainly met our expectations in terms of quality and dependability during its first two years."
 
The bold portions speak for themselves. They had to enter those caveats because they know about the BMW reputation for long-term reliability.
 
2005 X3: "Unfortunately, one summer day, our X3 was the innocent victim in a rear-end collision. The BMW was hauled away by flatbed and spent three weeks at the body shop while the mechanical and body repairs were made. The total repair bill for that single accident was a whopping $7,901.52.
If we were forced to note one serious complaint about our 18,000 miles in the X3, it would likely be the time it was tied up in the body shop.* While the stiff city ride that comes with the sport package was not always appreciated, we do value the handling and the highway manners of the X3. With its manageable size, sporty nature and new DVD system, the X3 was one of the most popular vehicles in our test garage."
 
* - A point I made about two posts ago.
 
2001 530i: "With its odometer pushing 75,000 miles, it was hard not to be impressed with our 530i. There are new cars that don't feel as solid on the road, and anyone who saw it wouldn't have guessed it was a five-year-old car well on its way to 100,000 miles. The materials inside still looked good, and there was rarely a feature that we wished it had. If we judged it on nothing more than how it felt at speed on the highway or while cutting through a winding road, we would have nothing to complain about.
The purpose of a long-term test, however, is to look a little deeper, and in this case we didn't have to look far to see the downside to owning this BMW. We liked the 530i when it worked, but far too often it was plagued by nagging problems that required constant attention from the dealer. None of the problems left us stranded on the roadside, but sitting at the dealer isn't much better."
 
Again supporting my point from two posts ago.
 
2006 330i: "With the exception of $1.39 for a gallon of wiper fluid and the $334.19 replacement of a damaged tire, BMW's four-year/50,000-mile maintenance warranty covered all costs on the upkeep of our 3 Series. A radio static issue requiring the rear window to be replaced also fell under warranty.
BMW raised the bar again with the 330i. We welcomed it into our fleet with open arms and it left its mark on us. Its departure took with it several editors desperate for one more chance to drive while the rest lay in tears. It will be missed."
 
Another lottery winner, but still riddled with admittedly minor issues.
 
I never said Edmunds hated anyone. I said they would never claim BMW is a reliable ride, and guess what, you showed I was right. You've supported my contention three times. It's the third strike.
 
Stop now, we're all begging you. We all know it is a superior driving experience...in the short-term. I maintain and have proven (with your help) that BMW (among other German makers) are unreliable vehicles.

#39 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [itssavvy] by roadburner

Jan 12, 2008 (7:26 pm)

Replying to: itssavvy (Jan 12, 2008 5:30 pm)
Stop now, we're all begging you. We all know it is a superior driving experience...in the short-term. I maintain and have proven (with your help) that BMW (among other German makers) are unreliable vehicles.
 
Who's all? You are the one trolling with a grand total of five -count'em- FIVE posts. The other members here will easily determine who actually knows what they are talking about. But as I said before, if running down Bimmers makes you feel better about yourself as well as the transportation appliances you own and operate(I sincerely doubt that drive is the appropriate term) be my guest. But unlike you, instead of secretly coveting a BMW(or MS3, for that matter), I'll be driving one. Anyway, it's high time that I took Dilbert's famous advice- and place you on my "Ignore" list...

#40 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [roadburner] by itssavvy

Jan 12, 2008 (10:14 pm)

Replying to: roadburner (Jan 12, 2008 7:26 pm)
Oh no!!!!!
Not ignore!!!!
The tell tale sign of a lost argument.
 
As far as driving is concerned, I'd remove the cruise control from my 3 if I could.
 
Congratulations on counting my posts, likely the same as the IQ count on your part.
 
I've never "run down 'Bimmers'" (such a cute name). I simply said, "Lease, but don't buy." Which considering your car count, you've more or less done. You supported my argument through documentation. Chalk it up and move on, you're through.

#41 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [itssavvy] by networkguy

Jan 13, 2008 (8:25 am)

Replying to: itssavvy (Jan 12, 2008 10:14 pm)
FWIW. I work with a guy who found his dream car at a reasonable price. It was a used 2001 Z3M. He also thought he was buying a warranty at the same time. Turns out there was no extended warranty. There were a few minor problems with the car. The cost to repair said minor problems was about 1700 bucks. He had the work done. Six months later he was looking at another 500 or so to repair something else. He ended up selling the car. His quote was something along the lines of 'I could afford to buy it, just not own it.'

#42 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [networkguy] by itssavvy

Jan 13, 2008 (4:01 pm)

Replying to: networkguy (Jan 13, 2008 8:25 am)
It's worth gold Network. The other guy will choose to ignore it because he enjoys his perceived status, but facts are facts.
 
Thanks for your input.

#43 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [itssavvy] by rascal99

Jan 17, 2008 (8:53 pm)

Replying to: itssavvy (Jan 13, 2008 4:01 pm)
I really resisted the temptation to get involved with this fruitless argument; however, when I owned a BMW some years ago a guy in my office was relentless about chiding me about my "beamer" at every opportunity. So, this stuff touches a nerve (and I have a few minutes before UFC fight night starts). Not everyone buys a BMW, Audi, etc. for "status" reasons. Some buy for performance reasons. The 3-series is the most "decorated" car on the market, for good reason. I have owned two BMW's in my life and I certainly didn't buy them for status reasons. I bought them for performance and comfort. BMW and Audi have "average" reliability. So what. If you want to exploit some "kink in the armour" go ahead, but the argument is getting a bit old by now.
BTW, I am lurking here because I am interested in another great performance car, the MS3! What stereotype can be applied to driving this one? Help me out.

#44 of 54 Re: We Must Be Kidding [rascal99] by roadburner

Jan 17, 2008 (9:49 pm)

Replying to: rascal99 (Jan 17, 2008 8:53 pm)
BTW, I am lurking here because I am interested in another great performance car, the MS3!
 
The MS3 is an excellent high performance bargain. Much like BMW's M division, Mazdaspeed modifies the entire car, including items that the average driver would never see or notice. As a result, the Mazda 3 is transformed from a competent econobox into a legitimate performance car. One of the reasons I bought the MS3 is because we are seeing more and more FWD cars(mostly Minis and GTIs) at BMW CCA driving schools- and as a CCA instructor I wanted to have a better understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of the FWD configuration. The Mini was too small(I needed a usable rear seat,) VWoA wouldn't allow me to order a GTI the way I wanted it(no sunroof, cloth seats, seat heaters, and premium sound), and I thought that the A3 was a bit expensive for what you get(great interior, though). After 11K I'd say that most of my gripes about the MS3 are minor. Clutch engagement is very abrupt, but I've adapted. The OBC lacks a readout in the IP cluster, and the xenon lights function on low beam only. Service intervals are 50% more frequent than my E36 3 series(5K as opposed to 7.5K-depending on the SI system), and they need to be as my used oil analysis and that of others indicate that the DISI engine really does a number on its oil. Fortunately, my dealer gives free 5K oil changes for as long as I own the car- though I do have to bring my own Mobil 1 5W-30. To be fair, the reduced oil life is apparently a result of the direct injection technology, since the VW/Audi 2.0T, the Audi RS4 V8, and the BMW N54 twin turbo are equally hard on oil. Last year I only made it to one school -see my CarSpace page for the photo album- so I'm eager to find out how the MS3 likes the track. Spring can't come soon enough! As it stands now, I'll probably keep it for at least another one or two years.

Messages Page 5 of 6

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