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Vans & Minivans Honda Odyssey Honda Odyssey Engine Ping, Detonation, Preingition issues
125 messages, Last post on Oct 22, 2009 at 6:32 PM
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There are a few of us on this board that are having this engine ping, detonation, preignition issue/ noise from our vans. All models! The problem is that Honda can't fix it or does not know how to fix it so they are doing nothing. Read below for how catastrophic this issue is. I need to know who else is having this issue. It's definitely not " normal ". My van (07 Touring) does it on initial acceleration, just before and after the vans shift points at 50km/h(30mph) and 70km/h(45mph) under light acceleration, and up hills especially when the engine is hot. The knock sensor is supposed to prevent this from happening. The problem is real! Honda Canada and my dealer said, after working on it for 3 weeks, that it is indeed a pre-ignition/ detonation noise. They don't no why it's doing it, and they don't know how to fix it!!!! The problem is defined by Wikipedia in 2 ways but the result are the same : Knocking (also called pinging)- Colloquially detonation—in internal combustion engines occurs when air/fuel mixture in the cylinder has been ignited by the spark plug and the smooth burning is interrupted by the unburned mixture in the combustion chamber exploding before the flame front can reach it. The engineered combusting process ceases, because of the explosion, before the optimum moment for the four-stroke cycle. The resulting shockwave reverberates in the combustion chamber, creating a characteristic metallic "pinging" sound, and pressures increase catastrophically. It can range from hardly noticeable to complete engine destruction. Detonation or pre-ignition- The fuel/air mixture is normally ignited slightly before the point of maximum compression to allow a small time for the flame-front of the burning fuel to expand throughout the mixture so that maximum pressure occurs at the optimum point. The flame-front moves at roughly 33.5 m/second (110 feet/second) during normal combustion[citation needed]. It is only when the remaining unburned mixture is heated and pressurized by the advancing flame front for a certain length of time that the detonation occurs. It is caused by an instantaneous ignition of the remaining fuel/air mixture in the form of an explosion. The cylinder pressure rises dramatically beyond its design limits and if allowed to persist detonation will damage or destroy engine parts. Consequences of Knocking or Pre-ignition Engine knocking has disastrous consequences for the engine, since it leads to the catastrophical wear of the combustion chamber walls, through particle wear for moderate knocking, to welding for serious knocking. This is due to the contact between those walls and high temperature gases resulting from the unwanted explosion. The processes also lead to a 'knocking' noise for the engine, that give its name to the phenomenon. A big problem us owners are having is finding enough of us to recognize our vans have this problem and to make Honda do something about it - I think they should buy the vans back and do the research on them that is required to fix all of them.
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Replying to: ping3 (Aug 29, 2007 9:53 pm)
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| i have a 1995 Odysey with the same engine noise and a whisthling noise before transmission change ,espiecially in lower gear 1-2 please post answers if any thanks in advance ed. | |
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I'm so glad (sort of) to find your post. I have a 2007 EX-L - have had it for 10 months. For several months now (most of its life), it has had this knock. I can best describe it as sounding like a 1978 Bonneville! It just sounds like an old car with a rattly engine - not how I want my new car to sound. It happens mostly around 30-40 mph, especially if I am driving in that range and let off the gas and then re-accelerate. It also happens on initial acceleration from a stop. I've mentioned it to the dealer on several visits for other issues/oil changes. Last time, a mechanic tried several different tweaks (though I don't know exactly what) and it didn't really help. But yesterday, I took it in just to have the knock looked at again since we're nearing the end of the first year. I was basically dismissed. First they couldn't even hear it until I took the mechanic for a ride. They told me that it was the knock sensor "doing its job" (CREATING knock, I wonder?!). It was normal. They would call the Techline to see if they had any insight and get back to me, but there was probably nothing to be done with it. I'm also interested to read up a little on knock issues because I did try a tank of premium gas per the recommendation of the mechanic last time and it sounded better for about half the tank. I thought that meant it didn't fix it (maybe wasn't a knock/octane issue) but now I'm seeing that this is common when the tank gets low. Anyway, please keep posting about your progress with Honda. I don't intend to let this rest at "normal" but I also don't relish the idea of pushing this and becoming the crazy lady that keeps coming back for the "sound" in her van. |
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an update...The day after I initially posted about this, I got a call back from my service rep at Honda. They had called the Techline and found out that there is a service bulletin out for Pilots, Odys and Ridgelines. I can't remember all of the ins and outs of it, but they ordered me some new parts (I think the A pipe is part of what they're doing) and they're repairing it for me on Monday. I'm happy they're at least trying something, but disturbed to see this popping up as a more common problem - and not all that optimistic that they are going to make the noise go away. I will post in the new forum area specific to this problem and will update if whatever they do helps (with more detail on what it is they're doing). Oh, and on replacing the knock sensor, they said that the knock sensor was doing its job (and might actually be the reason for this "normal" sound - ha!). They did mention some indicator that would be tripped if there was a problem with the knock sensor and that indicator is showing that the sensor is fine. So they ruled that out as a solution.
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Replying to: mommobile2 (Sep 15, 2007 3:57 pm)
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Replying to: ac2000 (Sep 15, 2007 8:53 pm)
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Replying to: silverex (Nov 04, 2007 3:09 pm) Incidentally, the bulletin was the one silverex referenced (did that work for you silverex?). Bummer. I would definitely give it a try but no luck here! |
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To characterize the problem: 1. Slight engine knocking at low speed (35-40 miles) up hill. 2. Hears it more clearly from from passenger window. 3. Premium gas can reduce the knocking sound level but can never eliminate the knocking completely. |
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My Story: The reported noise arose after 15 months of ownership, very noticeable on right side of vehicle (passenger window down). I, too, was very worried about pinging and the potential damage to engine. Put high octane into tank to see if there would be a difference, but noted no change. Brought to dealer to get the ping, exhaust drone, and couple other issues fixed. Got car back with all problems fixed! Repair documents recommended that the TSB07-028 parts get ordered to rectify the pinging noise. Service adviser stated that they will call when the parts come in. Apparently they did something to the van to fix the problem while they had it, because I have not heard the ping/knock/chirp since the repairs a few months ago. When the problem first started, I suspected that the problem may have been the belt (it's on the right side of the vehicle, right?). There is actually a stitch line in the belt where the ends are joined. That section was looking ragged and worn despite the 17K miles on the vehicle. When I got the vehicle back from dealer, it appeared to have a brand new belt even though the repair documents said nothing about replacing the belt. A little odd if the dealer did that, but its not making the noise now! And they have not called me about the parts coming in on TSB07-028, but I don't think I need them, since it sounds fine.
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