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NGV or Hybrid?

13 messages,  Last post on Sep 12, 2007 at 8:55 PM

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#4 of 13 Re: ooops, the BENEFITS over the Hybrid [dejapooh] by gagrice Aug 17, 2007 (4:26 am)
Replying to: dejapooh (Aug 16, 2007 10:19 pm) A friend bought a used Crown Victoria CNG cop car at auction. Paid $300 and is driving it in the HOV lanes. If you want more room they are a lot bigger. Many cabs in San Diego are Crown Vic CNG. Just another good option.
#5 of 13 Yeah we've looked at that by dejapooh Aug 17, 2007 (8:21 am)
We've looked at the Crown Vic and the other CNG cars. We didn't like them very much. Plus, you can't beat the Civic when it comes to reliability and price (well not so much on price any more).
#6 of 13 Re: ooops, the BENEFITS over the Hybrid [dejapooh] by ikir Aug 18, 2007 (8:41 pm)
Replying to: dejapooh (Aug 16, 2007 10:19 pm) Thanks for the comments. I got the Civic GX today. I shopped around and did all the negotiations over the phone. We agreed on the payments and it actually got lower when we finalized everything. Great car. I agree with your comments on hoping to have bigger option. I wish Honda would have come out with a CNG version with the same features as the hybrids. The GX is a basic model like the LX.   Do you have a Phill unit? I am still deciding if I need one. There are several stations in San Francisco near my office. But I hear the incentives and rebates are worth it. Replies to this message: kermit4 (Sep 07, 2007 2:44 pm)
#7 of 13 Phill by dejapooh Aug 18, 2007 (10:06 pm)
From what I've gleened from the conversations here, the phill is a 0 sum gain. It ends up costing a bit more per gallon than using a station once you work in the cost of gas, electricity, and the unit itself (especially considering the expense of rebuilding as needed). The quality of the fill and the convenience of waking up every morning with a full tank is something... In the end, for me, I have decided against it for now. If you use a lot of gas (for a pool or something), If you do not have stations near your home and work, or if your time is really worth $120 an hour (Figure 15 minutes for me to go out of my way to get the fill at a station), If you are thinking of getting a second or third GX (wife and kids), then I would go for the phill or a FM4. For me, It is not worth it yet. If the price difference between station filling and home filling continues to grow, then I may go for one in the future. Replies to this message: bank1avp (Sep 10, 2007 9:54 am)
#8 of 13 Re: ooops, the BENEFITS over the Hybrid [ikir] by kermit4 Sep 07, 2007 (2:44 pm)
Replying to: ikir (Aug 18, 2007 8:41 pm) Is this Phill worth it? Depends on your situation. There's the cost of the unit and the cost of the installation, for starters. 6000 operating hours down the road (about 600 full-tank fills), you'll need to pay for a rebuild, which will include the cost of shipping the unit AND re-installation. Oh, and electricity to run the compressor.   On the other side of the equation, your local AQMD or Honda dealer may offer purchase incentives for the Phill, and the federal government offers a tax credit on both purchasing the unit and on installation costs. (though if you pay the Alternative Minimum Tax, or come anywhere *near* paying the AMT, you won't be able to collect on those credits.) Also, you may be eligible for a reduction in the cost of your household natural gas, both for the car *and* for household use.   Bottom line when we worked the numbers was that home fuelling was going to be cheaper for us, especially with the steep price for CNG at the stations near us and two teen girls who use entirely too much hot water. But you'll need to figure out if it works for you. There's a yahoo cng group that can help you crunch the numbers.   For us, the most important thing was the convenience factor. We do not have a CNG station nearby either work or home, and in the weeks before we got our Phill installed, having to spend an extra half hour every 2 or 3 days getting the car fuelled up got old really fast. Why not see how easy it is for you to fuel up from local stations? You might find that's just fine for you.
#9 of 13 Re: Phill [dejapooh] by bank1avp Sep 10, 2007 (9:54 am)
Replying to: dejapooh (Aug 18, 2007 10:06 pm) Everything dejapooh said with the exception of the multiple cars. PHILL is good for one small car say a GX or Cavallier, if you are doing up to 120 miles per day in these cars you will be fine. Beyond that, large CNG SUV or truck, or multiple cars you will want an FMQ2-36. Pumps twice as fast and has the ability to fill two cars at the same time. Head swap on a FM model takes 15 minutes, PHILL rebuild ro exchange a month maybe. New FM head $550 plus service call, PHILL $2000 plus tear town from wall, plus shipping, plus re-install on wall, plus this process can only be repeated upto three times, FM's indefinate as far as I am aware of.   Murphy
#10 of 13 "Those darn filters" by ngvdrivers Sep 11, 2007 (7:03 pm)
Replying to: dejapooh (Aug 16, 2007 10:19 pm) dejapoo, can you outline the issue for me regarding the GX filters that you mentioned? Are you talking about the fuel filter. If so, what's wrong with them? Replies to this message: dejapooh (Sep 11, 2007 7:46 pm) ikir (Sep 12, 2007 7:35 pm) dejapooh (Sep 12, 2007 8:55 pm)
#11 of 13 Re: "Those darn filters" [ngvdrivers] by dejapooh Sep 11, 2007 (7:46 pm)
Replying to: ngvdrivers (Sep 11, 2007 7:03 pm) I mean the fuel Filters. They are expensive, Only dealers are supposed to replace them, and you don't have to deal with them in other kinds of cars. Replies to this message: ikir (Sep 12, 2007 7:35 pm) dejapooh (Sep 12, 2007 8:55 pm)
#12 of 13 Re: "Those darn filters" [dejapooh] by ikir Sep 12, 2007 (7:35 pm)
Replying to: dejapooh (Sep 11, 2007 7:46 pm) I was told by the dealer the filters are about $600. Is that about right? Also how often do you change yours? I was told around every 10,000 miles or when the oil indicator reaches 10 to 15 %. I've only had my car for a month now and I'm at 90% already. Replies to this message: dejapooh (Sep 12, 2007 8:55 pm)
#13 of 13 Re: "Those darn filters" [ikir] by dejapooh Sep 12, 2007 (8:55 pm)
Replying to: ikir (Sep 12, 2007 7:35 pm) You change the oil every 7500 to 10000, when the oil light is showing 10% or so (according to the Honda people I talked to, the car "Senses" the oil, and determines when you will need new Oil.   The Fuel Filter should be less (I hope it is at least), and is supposed to be replaced every 30,000 miles.   There was a guy here who said he went 100,000 miles one one filter and it wasn't a big deal. That you could replace it when performance is affected by the water in the filter or something like that... I don't know.

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