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Automotive News & Views Who Pays for our Roads?
75 messages, Last post on Dec 05, 2007 at 8:44 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Nov 21, 2007 7:04 pm) Bicycles have the same rights to the road as any other vehicle. And, yes, we must obey the same laws. I always signal my turns, stop at all red lights and stop signs and ride as far to the right as I can where a sudden wind gust won't blow me off the road. I wish I had a dollar for all the infractions and dangerous acts I witness by motor vehicle operators on a daily basis.
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Replying to: tedebear (Nov 21, 2007 7:30 pm) Yet I can count on one hand of a high school shop teacher the number of times I have seen a bicyclist stop at any of the 4 way stop signs around town. I wish I had a dime for every time I had to hit the brakes because some yahoo blew off the stop sign on the bike path and just flew out into traffic. And my favorite one was when I came to a complete stop at a four way stop the proceeded to make a left turn and almost hit the moron on the bike that at a high rate of speed just went through the stop sign then had the nerve to yell at me saying "Bicycles have the same right to use the roads". What a chumpolone.
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Nov 21, 2007 7:54 pm) Then there are the apparent deaf drivers who have their radio blaring so loud that I can hear it clearly when they pass me with their windows rolled up. I bet that gives them plenty of warning when an emergency vehicle is approaching. Or the occasional impatient driver who finds it necessary to fly around me when I am about 10 seconds from getting to the stoplight. I guess he/she gets bonus points at the end of the year for additional time sitting at red lights. It used to be a lot worse before I moved to a different suburb of St. Louis 7 years ago. At least the majority of the drivers where I'm at now seem like they engage their brain when they engage their gear selector. However, I've done multiple coast-to-coast rides and other things, so I've seen it all. |
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Replying to: snakeweasel (Nov 21, 2007 7:54 pm) That way, they can be tracked better, and held accountable when they do damage. For example, right now, if a bicyclist hits your car and damages it, you have to take them to court and file a case against them, and hope that you can get them to pay up. I've been hit twice, while stopped at a traffic light, by a bicyclist cutting between the lanes. One of them smacked the mirror on my pickup with his backpack. Just kept right on going. The other one, a girl, tried cutting between the lanes in a traffic circle, lost her balance, and fell against my truck. Now, neither one did any damage, but what if I had a brand-new car and it got scaped up? If you damage a vehicle with another vehicle, and then flee the scene, is that not a hit and run? Which is, I believe, in most jurisdictions, a felony? Now sure there are plenty of decent bicyclists out there, I'm sure. But I've lost track of how many times I see one just blow through a red light without even looking, hopping up on the sidewalk to blow across a crosswalk to beat a traffic light, and so forth. It really makes me wonder, when a bicyclist gets themselves injured or killed, how often did they really bring it upon themselves? Judging from how often many of them act, I'd say quite often. Heck, back when I used to deliver pizzas, I almost nailed one once. And not with a car...with the front door to the store! I opened that door, with about 3 hotbags in my hands, and suddenly heard this yelling and screeching of tires. It was an idiot on a bike, flying down the sidewalk in front of the store. Trust me, everyone within earshot in the parking lot heard a few choice words that day...I tend to get a loud voice when I'm irked. That biker was about to get mouthy, but when he saw I was out for blood, took off REAL quick. Oh, another thing I like is how bicyclists tend to think that they don't have to stop for pedestrians in the crosswalk. I've almost knocked a few over, as a pedestrian, that way.
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Replying to: andre1969 (Nov 22, 2007 7:12 am) I'm sometimes tempted to carry a 12 inch heavy pipe. With my arm extended that should come to about 3 ft from my bike. If a car passes with 3 ft to spare it wouldn't impact on their windshield.
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Replying to: tedebear (Nov 23, 2007 11:10 am) "I'm sometimes tempted to carry a 12 inch heavy pipe. With my arm extended that should come to about 3 ft from my bike. If a car passes with 3 ft to spare it wouldn't impact on their windshield." When you make a public statement like this whether you a ride a bicycle, motorcycle, or drive a car, you are encouraging adversarial and possibly violent attitudes between the operators of two and four+ wheeled vehicles which can only hurt your cause. Granted, you are "sometimes only tempted", however this statement is not helpful to your cause. While you are bringing up laws, let's think about legal rights, such as "share the road". Many of the recent posts against the responsible use of bicycles and motorcycles touch on this. Public roads do not belong only to bikers or drivers of other vehicles. And that goes for the folks who think bicyclists are too slow to be on the road. They should get over when they can, but otherwise you are obligated to yield. Think about it... You have to go slow in your 5500 pound 300HP pickup because someone is riding a bike up a hill, and you can't wait to get to a legal place to pass so you are raging? Huh...
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Replying to: la4mead (Nov 26, 2007 11:09 pm) I've lived in a lot of areas in this country. Some are definitely more bike friendly than others when it comes to road design. I currently live in So. MD and the roads and bridges were clearly not designed for bicycles and cars to coexist. I do see people riding bicycles but they've got more nerve than me. I wouldn't feel comfortable with vehicles constantly whizzing by me a couple feet on my left at 50+ mph.
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Replying to: tpe (Nov 27, 2007 6:12 am)  ) -- the road subsidy paid for by general taxpayers is huge and road subsidies date back to Zane's Trace in 1796. Taxpayers pay for building the roads, removing the snow and all sorts of stuff that the gas tax doesn't begin to cover. This book says the subsidy was $400 a person in the US in 1997. Since they don't use gas, maybe we can take the bike argument over to Bicycle paths, should motorists pay for them?.
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 27, 2007 7:33 am) He also includes the tax breaks for ethanol in the calculations. That's not a road subsidy - it's subsidy for agribusiness (think ADM), and most of us would be happy if Congress eliminated it. His claim that the sprawl is fueling increases in fire protection is particularly unpersuasive. Fire companies have always been expected to protect rural areas, which were linked by roads even before motorized transport. What is driving costs in that sector are more effective - but much more expensive - equipment and increasing professionalization of emergency medical services and fire personnel. The number of fires has actually been decreasing for years, due to sprinkler systems in mosts commercial buildings, safer heating systems in homes and a decline in smoking (fewer people are falling asleep with a lit cigarette dangling out of their mouth). I note that he conveniently ignores that, since the early 1980s, a certain percentage of the money raised by the Highway Trust Fund (which pays the federal portion of costs associated with maintaining and building the interstate highway system) has been directed to non-road projects, including bike paths and mass transit. One wonders why, if roads aren't paying for themselves, we can now subsidize other forms of transportation with revenues raised by federal taxes on diesel fuel, gasoline and other automotive products. Not that I have a problem with helping other forms of transportation - I like to ride bicycles, too - but let's get the COMPLETE picture here. Each state is expected to cover a portion of road construction and maintenance costs. Here in Pennsylvania, we raise the necessary funds through a combination of the gasoline tax, driver's license and vehicle registration fees and a dedicated portion of the state sales tax. Which means that a person who lives in rural Bedford County, for example, may be subsidizing the Southeastern Pennsylvania Transit Authority (SEPTA), even if he or she never sets foot in the Philadelphia metropolitan area. Sorry, but I take that book's claim with a rock-sized grain of salt. He has an agenda (I love his claim that we can spend the savings on '"necessary programs, like education" - a bloated nightmare if there ever was one, never mind that there is no proof whatsoever that we aren't spending enough on education.), and is twisting the facts to make it.
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Replying to: grbeck (Nov 27, 2007 8:05 am) "Although "user fees" in the form of gas taxes, registration fees, and tolls pay for a portion of the infrastructure services, large government outlays remain that must be covered by general revenues." link "Q: How much of total road and highway costs in Wisconsin are covered by nonuser fees from local governments? A: Estimated $1.29 billion of $3.29 billion (39%)" link Note that I'm ignoring all the social costs arguments here. Love the links wars. 
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