Article Comments - 2007 Hybrid Sedan Comparison Test - READ ONLY

44 messages, Last post on Mar 18, 2008 at 2:34 PM

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What is this discussion about? Toyota Camry Hybrid, Nissan Altima Hybrid, Saturn Aura, Hybrid Cars, Sedan

Article comments for 2007 Hybrid Sedan Comparison Test - Comparing hybrid sedans is a little like pitting Rush Limbaugh against Al Gore in a Thunderdome-style death match. The fight itself might put you to sleep, but the results, which speak volumes about the commitment of the combatants, will have everyone taking notice. (more)

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#41 of 44 Re: Economics of a hybrid [engnrng] by langjie Feb 04, 2008 (10:48 am)
Replying to: engnrng (Feb 01, 2008 8:31 pm) yes, i'm not sure where you're going with this. are you saying that it costs more or less to own a hybrid? Replies to this message: talmy1 (Feb 04, 2008 11:41 am) langjie (Feb 07, 2008 12:50 pm)
#42 of 44 Re: Economics of a hybrid [langjie] by talmy1 Feb 04, 2008 (11:41 am)
Replying to: langjie (Feb 04, 2008 10:48 am) I'm saying it could be too close to call. There are many factors involved which cannot be accurately predicted or accounted for in the Edmunds TCO calculations. My own personal estimations showed it to be a wash. However we went with the TCH because of its quiet, smooth ride. If it ends up saving money, that will be a bonus. If it costs more money, well we had a nicer car. Replies to this message: langjie (Feb 07, 2008 12:50 pm)
#43 of 44 Re: Economics of a hybrid [talmy1] by langjie Feb 07, 2008 (12:50 pm)
Replying to: talmy1 (Feb 04, 2008 11:41 am) ok, gotcha.... well with the altima there are pro's and con's. smaller trunk is a con for the hybrid but getting TCS and VDC is a major PRO (you can't get it with the 2.5 models)
#44 of 44 Re: Economics of a hybrid [gagrice] by kdhspyder Mar 18, 2008 (2:34 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Feb 02, 2008 1:51 pm) The problem with Edmund's analysis ( all their analyses of this sort ) is that they don't factor in any amount for future fuel price increases. At most they figure that gas will be $2.85 forever.. I've called them out on this subject before but it's built into their system based on 1990's experience. Well they're just wrong as we can see today. Fuel is not $2.85 forever. A more realistic way to calculate it is to plan on a 'fuel inflation factor'. This is what a small business would do if it was planning on buying an asset. Length of ownership: Months or Years Distance driven: per Month or Year Cost of Fuel: $/Gal, factored for inflation Fuel economy: # Gal / 1000 mi driven Purchase price: Less: Resale Value Less: Tax Credits, if any Cost of Fuel: Avg $/Gal over lifespan x Total distance driven Then do the math.....it's a snap on a spreadsheet. In every case from 2 yrs to 5 yrs to 7 yrs to 10+ yrs the hybrid Camry comes out ahead of the non-hybrid version. In the shorter term the higher residual value on resale makes the TCH cost less overall. In the longer term both vehicles are worth little to nothing but the cost of the escalting fuel year after year makes the TCH cost less to own. 2007 4c XLE vs 2007 TCH level 2 ( w / SR ), both vehicles driven 30000 mi since new Purchase Prices XLE 4c ..$25400 TCH #2 ..$27900 Resale value ( 3/18/08 Black Book ) XLE 4c .. $18100 TCH #2 .. $21900 Tax Credits: XLE 4c .. $0 TCH #2 .. $2200 ( now $0 ) Avg Cost of fuel / Gal..Actual ( Est ) 2006 .. $2.50 2007 .. $2.85 = 2 yr Avg $2.68 2008 .. ( $3.30 ) = 3 yr Avg ( $2.90 ) 2009 .. ( $3.80 ) 2010 .. ( $4.30 ) = 5 yr Avg ( $3.35 ) 2011 .. ( $4.80 ) 2012 .. ( $5.30 ) = 7 yr Avg ( $3.80 ) 2013 2014 2015 .. ( $6.80 ) = 10 yr Avg ( $4.55 ) 2016 2017 After 2 yrs ( today ) and 30000 miles the cost equation is.. XLE 4c $25400 - $18100 = $7300 vehicle cost TCH #2 $27900 - $21900 - $2200 = $3800 vehicle cost !!! Fuel used ( 2008 EPA values ) XLE 4c .. 25 mpg Combined = 40.0 gal / 1000 mi driven = 1200 Gal x $2.68 = $3215 TCH ...... 34 mpg Combined = 29.4 gal / 1000 mi driven = ..882 Gal x $2.68 = $2365 Total costs thus far XLE 4c .. $7300 + $3215 = $10515 TCH #2 .. $3800 + $2365 = $6165 That's a pretty huge difference in favor of the hybrid Camry after just two years!! OK factor out the $2200 Tax credit. That's still a $2000+ advantage in favor of the TCH after only 2 yrs ( higher resale ). Do all the same math but do it over 10 yrs 15000 mi/yr and estimate that the residual value of both vehicles with 150,000 miles is $1000....and there is no Tax Credit involved. The net result is: XLE 4c Total cost ( V + F ) = $24400 + $27300 = $51700 TCH #2 Total cost ( V + F ) = $26900 + $20065 = $46965 That's $4700 in favor of the TCH after 10 yrs of use and 150,000 miles ( CARB warranty )