Article Comments - 2007 Hybrid Sedan Comparison Test - READ ONLY

44 messages, Last post on Mar 18, 2008 at 2:34 PM

You are in the Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer

This discussion is ARCHIVED. To reactivate the discussion, post a request in the Lost? Ask the Hybrids Host for directions! discussion.

What is this discussion about? Toyota Camry Hybrid, Nissan Altima Hybrid, Saturn Aura, Hybrid Cars, Sedan

Article comments for 2007 Hybrid Sedan Comparison Test - Comparing hybrid sedans is a little like pitting Rush Limbaugh against Al Gore in a Thunderdome-style death match. The fight itself might put you to sleep, but the results, which speak volumes about the commitment of the combatants, will have everyone taking notice. (more)

Outline

Messages Page 3 of 5: 1; 2; 3; 4; 5; Prev; Next; Last

#15 of 44 Re: Altima [talmy1] by actualsize Jul 24, 2007 (8:03 am)
Replying to: talmy1 (Jul 24, 2007 6:52 am) As the article states, the Altima is only available in one of the 8 states that follow California's emission requirements. However some apparently are "smuggled" as I saw an ad in the newspaper here (Portland, Oregon, not one of the 8 states) for a Nissan dealer that was selling Altima Hybrids on a special weekend sale for MSRP with no additional markup. Dealers in any state bordering one of the California emissions states (CARB) can sell California emissions cars. I'm not sure of the legal details, but here is the key from a map on the EPA website defining the term "sales area". Note how this is outdated, as they still refer to only 5 CARB states: Blue : Vehicles are primarily available from dealers in the states shown in blue. These include CA, MA, ME, NY, VT. Yellow: Vehicles may be available from dealers in the states shown in yellow , under an EPA policy that allows sales in states contiguous to the primary (blue) sales area. These include AZ, CT, NH, NJ, NV, OR, PA, RI. The number of CARB states (blue) has since increased from 5 to 8 to 11. Florida is now set to make it 12. I'm not sure if the laws in more than 8 of the states have actually kicked-in. Adding in the "bordering" states, half the country will soon be included in the blue or yellow zones.
#16 of 44 Aura's vs Civic Hybrid by happy_hybrid_1 Jul 24, 2007 (8:16 am)
I'm not sure where GM got their Hybrid system. Did they develop it in house or did they use Honda Technology? I have a Honda Civic Hybrid, and let me tell you how it is not capable of electric only acceleration at all, yet I get about 38mpg. The Internal Combustion Motor and the Electric motor are always running together. The numbers for the Aura are well beneath this, and it seems that the technology could be at least a little bit more advanced than Honda tech. I'm guessing also that GM did not retune the engine to the Atkinson Fuel Cycle, and that it is still tuned to the Otto Cycle, and is burning fuel in the tail pipe instead of in the engine (less efficient). While the Aura may not be real competition for the NAH or the TCH, it is slotted somewhere inbetween the Honda Civic Hybrid and the Altima and the Camry. It fills a small niche, and kind of creates its own market - a mid-size cheap hybrid. Given that it is a hybrid though, GM needs to work on those MPG numbers. You can go buy a used late 90s Acura or Honda and beat the numbers that the Aura is getting in this test.
#17 of 44 Camry #1 in Styling. by veliger Jul 24, 2007 (9:02 am)
The Edmunds road test guys all must be blind, or married to some seriously ugly women. I'd rank the styling: 1. Aura 2. Altima 3. Camry (a very distant 3rd). The wart/tumor/zit at the end of the hood and the slant eye rear end are hideous on the Camry. Did you guys actually measure road noise? I really prefer a decibel reading at 60 or 70 MPH so I can be sure your bias isn't showing even in noise ratings. Anyplace an objective rating is available, I prefer a number, and then rank it using the objective number so we avoid your bias whenever possible. Replies to this message: actualsize (Jul 24, 2007 12:34 pm) kannikanwo (Jul 25, 2007 2:30 pm) mfletou1 (Jul 25, 2007 10:54 am) langjie (Jul 25, 2007 11:29 am) coldcar (Jul 28, 2007 11:26 pm)
#18 of 44 Styling is sooooo subjective by alpha01 Jul 24, 2007 (11:02 am)
so as to be moot in comparison test that is attempting to judge the success of the vehicle's execution. OR, considering that the TCH is currently running at a rate of 16-20% of the model's sales, which total 440K per annum at a rate of 85+% to actual retail consumers..... there MUST BE a LOT of guys "married to some seriously ugly women". LOL.
#19 of 44 Minor screw-up by towrigger Jul 24, 2007 (11:31 am)
Anyone else notice that the last two pictures of the Nissan Altima in the sidebar are actually of the Saturn Aura?
#20 of 44 Re: Camry #1 in Styling. [veliger] by actualsize Jul 24, 2007 (12:34 pm)
Replying to: veliger (Jul 24, 2007 9:02 am) Did you guys actually measure road noise? I really prefer a decibel reading at 60 or 70 MPH so I can be sure your bias isn't showing even in noise ratings. Anyplace an objective rating is available, I prefer a number, and then rank it using the objective number so we avoid your bias whenever possible. We agree. And we do that. If you go to the "specifications and performance" attachment to the story, you'll find the following numbers that we measured: 70 mph Cruise: Camry 65.2, Altima 65.9, Aura 65.6 Full throttle: Camry 73.6, Altima 74.3, Aura 79.8 We do idle too. But with hybrids, sometimes they "idle" with the engine off and sometimes the engine remains on. (all are decibels on the dba scale) If too many numbers are written into the story text, things get boring and hard to read really quick. This spec/data sheet is attached to each test. Replies to this message: kannikanwo (Jul 25, 2007 2:30 pm)
#21 of 44 Where is the Camry #1 in Styling?? by maxamillion1 Jul 24, 2007 (1:47 pm)
From what I saw: For overall design and build quality, interior materials, and exterior design the ranks are Altima, Camry and Aura. Interior design and tactile feel have the Camitima tied ahead of the Aura. I can dig that. First time I've ever seen the Altima be rated than the Camry as far as interior materials and I tend to agree because some portions of the camry's interior are cheap. I do agree with the ranking those, simply because the Camry is the true pioneer of the midsize Hybrids (Nissan is using TOyota's technology) and the Camry hybrid is more readily available. So even if the Altima had done a bit better, the mere fact that it's not NEARLY as available as the Camry is a demerit in itself.
#22 of 44 Re: Camry #1 in Styling. [veliger] by mfletou1 Jul 25, 2007 (10:54 am)
Replying to: veliger (Jul 24, 2007 9:02 am) Obviously, many hundreds of thousands of buyers disagree with you, leading me to suggest that perhaps you are the one closer to "blind." No offense.
#23 of 44 Re: Camry #1 in Styling. [veliger] by langjie Jul 25, 2007 (11:29 am)
Replying to: veliger (Jul 24, 2007 9:02 am) ha, i'm not going to argue the blind thing...i will just add that styling is very much personal taste. after awhile, seeing these popular cars on the road, you will be immune to the ugliness, or the coolness factor will wear off. i like starting off cooler, that's why i got the altima, =D
#24 of 44 Re: Camry #1 in Styling. [actualsize] by kannikanwo Jul 25, 2007 (2:30 pm)
Replying to: actualsize (Jul 24, 2007 12:34 pm) Thank you for the noise rating specs. This was really important to me because I kept reading comments that the Camry is "quiet" and the Nissan is "loud" in various reviews. Looking at it objectively from your numbers, it seems like all three cars are about the same in noise at 70 mpg and the Aura is considerably louder than the Camry and Altima at full throttle.