Last post on May 26, 2011 at 10:08 AM
You are in the Hyundai Santa Fe
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Santa Fe, Brakes, SUV
#69 of 82 Re: Hyundai just released another TSB [bambew]
Feb 16, 2011 (5:17 pm)
How old are you? If you have to get your automotive facts from Wikipedia, I wonder, do you even own a car? I am an Automotive Engineer. I have owned 21 vehicles, including 16 company vehicles. I get a new company vehicle every year as part of my compensation package. I put about 40,000mi/year/vehicle. I have NEVER cleaned and lubricated brakes on any of those vehicles except when replacing disc brake pads every 55-60k mi. About 80% of my driving is on highways. I NEVER had disc brake calipers sieze up due to extreme/abnormal corrosion as on my wife's 2007 Santa Fe GLS 3.3V6 AWD. This is caused by poor choice of materials for the brake components which induces galvanic corrosion! I don't have to read about brakes on Wikipedia to know they SHOULD NOT need to be cleaned, much less lubricated once a year regardless of mileage, as Hyundai dealers' severe service schedule indicates.
#70 of 82 Re: Hyundai just released another TSB [iv6tec]
Feb 16, 2011 (5:48 pm)
The voice of good sense and reason I must say... clearly - the components are prone to corrosion and the only thing that may save some Santa Fe owners from this problem may be which part of the world they live in - but there is no reason corrosion should be such a problem at 20k miles - I noticed it and saw posts here of people actually getting noise and mechanical problems due to corrosion at low mileage - even when you opt for aftermarket parts (I tend to use hi performance products to replace stock) - I could tell they just took the same materials and slapped a different brand name on it because they corroded exactly the same way - normally during a brake job the calipers should be serviced - it helps keep everything warranty proof - so the new parts installed won't get destroyed because you failed to do a proper service - every shop I manage the techs/mechanics have to check the caliper operation physically and visually - some just go ahead and do the procedure to be thorough - but it prevents wasted labor when the customer comes back and wonders why you didn't see a problem when you were replacing pads... brake components should not need service in between pad replacements unless you're rally racing or something - in which case - these components would have already been replaced with better stuff than what came stock...
#71 of 82 Re: Hyundai just released another TSB [iv6tec]
Feb 18, 2011 (9:22 am)
I am 47, have owned (and personally maintained the brakes) enough cars to KNOW...
Have YOU ever had the pleasure of jacking your car up in your driveway (on a frequent basis), pulling the wheels off, puling the calipers/pads off to inspect them, and in the process, GETTING YOUR HANDS DIRTY??? I doubt it, since you have the luxury of a BRAND NEW COMPANY VEHICLE every year... Except for your wife's 4 year old Santa Fe...
BTW, which automobile manufacturer do you work for?
My brother, who has been a GM Service Technician for 30 years, has told me many'a story about customers who decline a $500 brake service only to come 'limping' (their car, not themselves...) back to face a $2000+ repair job just because they were too cheap or didn't trust the technician/dealer... Just like the television commercial states... 'You can pay me now, or you can pay me later'....
See, the problem with 'Engineers' is that they live in a 'fantasy world'... not the 'real world'... Engineers are also very 'closed mined' as you have demonstrated with your dismissal of my 'Wiki' link... I have worked in factories with machinery for most of my working life. I am sure that many machine operators will agree, that when the 'ENGINEER' comes down to the production floor from his/her cushy office, they try to tell you that the machine 'should' work in a certiain way, when you, the machine operator (8-12 hours a shift), being very intimate with said machinery, KNOWS that the machine IN FACT, doesn't... EVERY MACHINE, just like us humans, have a very distinct PERSONALITY... Engineers 'assume' that all machines are created equal. NOT!!!
I am very disappointed with the fact that you are an 'Engineer' and that you say that brake caliper lubrication/cleaning is "Unnecessary"...
Anyways dude... it's not rocket science that moving parts need to be constantly lubricated... In addition, any moving parts (such as brake calipers), that are subject to adverse weather/road (ex: salt) conditions, need to be CLEANED and LUBRICATED frequently...
As I mentioned previously, what part of the continent do you live dude? Canada, USA, mid-continent or east/west seaboard...
#72 of 82 Re: Hyundai just released another TSB [bambew]
Feb 18, 2011 (9:40 am)
We're all from Dudeville.
$2000. brake job? Sounds like an overcharge unless it was on a very heavy duty or exotic vehicle.
When a used pad is looked at (by removing it) how it has worn in relation to the opposing pad tells you a lot about whether or not sliders should be re-lubed.
It is important that the caliper is free to float and self centre it self around the rotor. Somewhere between your make-work ($) scenarios and checking for obvious things that need attention (like i just mentioned), is probably a happy compromise and the middle ground.
Some friendly advice for you ok?..., if you want to garner credibility around here, I would at least start with not calling other posters, "Dude".
#73 of 82 Re: Hyundai just released another TSB [bambew]
Feb 18, 2011 (10:11 am)
to be sure - when manufacturers put out owners manuals - it is under the advisement of engineers - not technicians or mechanics - which is why all owners manuals service intervals will always seem like overkill to the everyday person... they are safeguarding both themselves and the customer but leaning more toward protecting themselves. As I say most vehicles would not need to lubricate calipers every year - BUT suggestion would be to inspect everytime the wheels are off - which would at least be every tire rotation 6k-8k miles - for some this might be a years worth of driving - but I think not for most people. And then you're at the mercy of who's doing the inspecting to be honest and say it needs work now or no everything is ok. (some lie to make money - some lie because it's a pain in the neck job to do and don't want the headache!) If you make a product that you warranty - you will offer the best case scenario as to how it should be maintained. The components will not definitely fail if you do not follow the recommended intervals - but you will lose the warranty if you don't and you are at risk - you are gambling when you don't follow their recommendation because although it might be just a money making scheme - there might be a legit reason why the interval is on paper that way - when you complain that your car sucks because this and that failed - my question will always be how was the maintenance kept up? And the ones that know they didn't do their due diligence and keep up with the prescribed maintenance will always cite someone they know who never did any maintenance on their car (usually different make/model/yr) and they never had a problem - well... guess who was lucky and who wasn't. I don't think that anyone is saying the brakes shouldn't need to be serviced at all - but every year in between brake changes as a rule to take everything apart for lube is insane - inspection should not always mean work has to be done. Finally - if a manufacturer becomes aware of a defect after the fact - they may not halt the production - they may release the car and try to mitigate the problem but adjusting the maintenance interval - as in - we know our tranny's suck so make sure we force them into using specific hard to find fluid (dealers) and make them come in for a service every 10k miles! It's a joke but we usually buy the cars and find out their flaws after the fact - maybe the dealers even find out after the fact - but I think maybe sometimes.... the manufacturers knew what was in store... by the way - anyone who can foot the bill for these intervals and do each and every one prescribed will probably have less problems overall... people are upset cause their paying so much for a vehicle that is supposed to be economical - where is the economy when you have to spend so much to maintain - oh - but I do go on...
#74 of 82 Re: Hyundai just released another TSB [somedai1]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Feb 18, 2011 (10:20 am)
it is under the advisement of engineers
I think marketing has some input too - fewer people would buy car X if car Y was known to have less frequent and cheaper maintenance requirements. Some of us (maybe fewer than I think), pay a little attention to that when shopping cars.
Feb 13, 2011 (10:39 am)
They pay people to write their articles at $15/ea.
That's really not a reliable source of information.
Not a comment on brake maintenance, just the cited source.
#76 of 82 Re: eHow? [kyfdx]
Feb 13, 2011 (11:40 am)
Technically, there is some good info in those articles. What they don't get into, is stuff like, (to save weight and money) that the lengths of the (usually aluminum) pistons help determine how resistant they are to canting sideways in their bores in the cases of cars that sit idle for long periods of time. Or also that the mfgr saved a few bucks by using an aluminum content that was 'dirty'. Thereby falling prey to electrolysis prematurely. Who's going to possibly catch them at it, right? Especially if they encourage a labour intensive maintenance schedule..
My car fell into this category. And the last few in the past decade. In summer months I actually ride the bike more than the car.
I made a wty claim though on some faulty front calipers on my 03 Matrix. The rotors had started to corrode (which was my fault due to lack of use, not Toyota's) but was their fault is that the pads were only grabby about 2/3rds of the rotor, thereby reducing braking strength a lot. Especially because of where they were grabbing. They were grabbing near the hub, leaving the outer 1/3rd unsqueezed, so leverage challenged. This started happening though at only 12000 miles/18 months or so, so was obviously a design flaw.
It is fine (well no...it is not, but whatever) for companies like Hyundai to stipulate whatever rules they want to, and it is up to the consumer to either adhere and anti-up, or pay the potential consequences if the company can shirk responsibility enough to convince the customer that it is their responsibility, not the maker of the car. But many customers have a memory, and they will remember if there were unreasonable clauses like this and (like non-transferable long-term warranties etc) when they go to replace their car.
#77 of 82 One more item to consider
Feb 18, 2011 (6:31 pm)
I grew up in Euclid, Ohio. Bought my first car, a 1966 Corvair, and there was nothing on that car that hadn't had 5 winters of road salt attack it. Everything - brake drums, parking brake cables, wheel nuts, U-joints, shock absorber mounts, exhaust parts - everything was fused together with rust. It's a wonder that the brakes worked as well as they did, being all cast iron drums. My point is, in areas that use road salt, frequent brake inspections are needed much more often than where I live now - Southern California. Some that live very close to the ocean have some small part of the same problem.
But Manufacturers must make a warranty policy to cover both scenarios. So it's overkill for a place like this, but protects them for people that live in places that use road salt and the like, or who drive on ocean beaches. I don't think it's the policy as much as the application of it. If I had a frozen caliper during the lifetime of the first set of front brake pads, living here in So Cal, I'd scream bloody murder to the Manufacturer (and maybe even more). But if I drove off-road, or on the beach, or on salted road, and I had a sticking pad, I'd kick myself for not having inspected (or have the things inspected) every 30k. So some allowance must be made for the conditions, at least as much as the mileage.
I've personally performed at least 20 brake jobs myself, just to make sure it's done right - and also because by now I can do it in less time than it would take to take it into ABC Auto, and sit in the waiting room reading 8 month old Car & Driver mags. I spend less time and money dealing with brake issues than anyone I know. I thank my Dad for showing me how to do these things; it's not the right thing to do for most, but it does give me some insight into things like this. And since I made my first payment for my first ever Hyundai today, February 18th, I'm now more than just an observer. If Hyundai (or their suppliers) are using sub-standard materials in their brake components, I want to know about it. That's why I keep reading these Forums. We all need to stick together on these issues!
For the record, since moving West 29 years ago, I've never had to replace a single exhaust system part! I've discovered one or two sticking disc brake pad, but cleaning the pins and slides, and lubing them with high-temp grease, fixed them easily. The conditions make a huge difference!
Finally, may I respectfully request that a new Forum be started for Santa Fe Brake Issues, and leave this one to the guys with serious Transmission Problems?
#78 of 82 Re: One more item to consider [ecotrklvr]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Feb 18, 2011 (7:17 pm)
request that a new Forum be started for Santa Fe Brake Issues
Great suggestion; we've moved the brake posts over here.