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#30 of 59 Re: What about wheel spin? [oldfarmer50]
Jul 18, 2007 (12:16 pm)
I think only if the contact patch was bigger (assuming tires were the same brand/model)
#31 of 59 Re: What about wheel spin? [oldfarmer50]
Jul 18, 2007 (12:40 pm)
Do the larger wheels limit wheel spin on high power FWD cars?
Two ways: the larger wheel is also usually wider, which will dictate a wider tire with a larger contact patch; and the larger wheel and tire can be heavy enough to overpower the engine. Most people consider that a bad thing.
#32 of 59 Re: What about wheel spin? [oldfarmer50]
Jul 18, 2007 (12:46 pm)
Wheel spin has nothing to do with size of the rim. However, overall diameter (and of course, choice of rubber on it) can affect wheel spin (since it will affect overall gearing). However, this will generally not happen in a car because if a larger wheel is selected, the profile of the tire is smaller so the overall wheel diameter stays about the same.
I’m assuming that Crossfire with 19” rims actually came with stickier (sportier) rubber than the smaller rim.
#33 of 59 Re: What about wheel spin? [robertsmx]
Jul 20, 2007 (5:06 pm)
"...I'm assuming that the Crossfire with 19" rims actually came with stickier(sportier) rubber than the smaller rim..."
Actually the 19" rims were standard, but I think you're right about the stickier tires. They were Pilot Sport 2's. It didn't help that the Crossfire only had 215hp. Shame. Nice looking car.
Jul 20, 2007 (9:13 pm)
Mr.Shiftright mentioned chassis strain with larger wheels. Local and State police departments found that to be true in Crown Vic squad cars.
When Ford went from 225/70R15 in '97 to 225/60R16 in '98, upper ball joints that had been lasting for the two to three years the cars were in service began failing within a year. After market companies came out with a larger upper ball joint that worked a lot better.
Police service is harder than most retail CV/Gr. Marquis customers' driving habits, but I still do a lot of upper ball joints for the blue hairs.
The '03 and up CV's have a different suspension, and do not seem to have a problem.
The message is clear, increasing the diameter of the wheel and shortening the sidewall does shorten the life of some suspension parts, and stress the cars.
#35 of 59 Re: stress [oldharry]
Jul 20, 2007 (10:41 pm)
I get your point regarding unexpected stresses.
On the other hand, if a relatively upsizing upsizing of wheels from 15 to 16" on a Crown Vic caused the mechanical failures you cited, that to me is a confirmation of the crappy engineering and poor quality of Ford. No surprise there.
#36 of 59 Lets face it.
Jul 21, 2007 (11:34 am)
Most of this is simply a issue of taste. Much like custom paint jobs or cold air intakes or polished valve covers. Maybe even exhaust tips. For the most part people get 22 inch wheels because they like how they look. Go to a NOPI event anywhere and see what they consider a good looking car. Someone could drive up in a great looking Porsche brand new and not even get a second glance because the Honda Civic parked next to it had a custom paint job and a sound system that cost more than the whole Porsche.
Not my cup of tea but it is something an import enthusiast can get their teeth into. Lets face it, long gone are the days of buying a car with steel wheels and hub caps unless you are simply buying a commuter car. I totally agree that 14 and 15 inch 60 series tires and fine for most every day use and they tend to be less expensive. low profile tires are the style right now for car people and big tires are the style for truck people. If you can afford it and you like the way it looks it isn't a waste of money if you have the money to spend.
#37 of 59 Re: Lets face it. [boaz47]
Jul 21, 2007 (12:50 pm)
I get your point, but the target for starting this forum wasn't boy racer types who like to modify Hondas or those that think Suburbans with 22" chrome wheels are hot. I've never been to a "NOPI" event, whatever that is.
Rather, my target audience included the unsuspecting buyer of a no-cost "Sport Package" option on a E350 that will potentially be spending 4 times as much (an extra $6,000) to keep rubber on 1" larger wheels. Or the Acura TL buyer like me that went for the $200 "high performance tire" option. Or every 3/5/7 series that gets a sport package option, even if it's predominantly used as a grocery getter and mundane commuter. Or, for that matter, every bloody automatic transmssion car out there.
I do agree that it's all about personal taste and preferences. And a significant percentage of larger wheels and high performance tire upgrades are purchased based upon looks, not performance (see A/T comment above). My only point was to suggest that, given the dollars involved, the decision warrants a bit more financial analysis and prudence than is probably being done by most. After all, look at how many forums include that famous question "do I REALLY need to use premium gas in my $30k/$40k/$50k+ xxxxx?". Whenever gas prices spike, some people are tempted to put low octane gas in a high compression engine thinking that they are saving 7-8% in fuel cost (not realizing that the lower octane results in retarded timing, lower mpg and the risk of long term engine damage). In the case of that aforementioned E350, over the course of 100k miles, the theoretical difference between premium and regular gas would only be $850+/-, unrealistically assuming NO loss in fuel efficiency. That's less than 15% of the additional cost that will be spent on replacement tires during that time, thanks to the no cost Sport Package.
And no, I haven't loaded up on put options on Pirelli and Michelin and I'm not trying to drive down their stock price.
#38 of 59 Re: Lets face it. [habitat1]
Jul 21, 2007 (8:38 pm)
Here's a link to a CD article on how upgrading the tires w/no wheel change makes a big difference:
Subie tire upgrade
This is one reason the big wheel options perform better - better tires. Put the same tire on both, the difference would shrink greatly. I did that, got much better handling with no wheel change.
One other problem is on some cars (BMWs?) the big wheel option comes with run-flats, which seem to cause problems.
Jul 21, 2007 (10:29 pm)
Today I saw an early 90s BMW 7er with oversized wheels. The car of course had windows tinted far past legal limits, so I couldn't see the dopey driver. The funny part though was that the car had badges on the front fenders, similar to the AMG engine size badges...but they said "20""...as if that's something to be proud of on such a car. It didn't look cool, it looked kind of sad, I felt sorry for the car.
My E55 has 18" factory wheels, and that's about as big as I want to get, knowing what decent tires cost for the thing.