Last post on Nov 24, 2013 at 2:06 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
Mar 16, 2011 (2:43 pm)
Over the last 10 months there has been about $7000.00 with of work on my 2005 Civic Hybrid.
Gas door cable and other stuff.
When the vehicle was purchased, used with 30000 miles I bought warranty from Universal Warranty and they covered everything without an argument. At 99734 miles the ima light came on with the battery failure key. The warranty had an option to exclude this part so I was stuck. The repair option with the dealer was 3000.00. I contacted Hybrid Revolt and they were going to meet me and exchange a battery pack for 1195. They were very cool. When that was being set up the dealer called me and stated that since I have a long repair history with them they contacted Honda and Honda agreed to fix it as a Goodwill Repair. They didn't charge me a dime! Kudos to Moon Township Honda for going to bat for me, Kudos to Universal Warranty for honoring everything they paid for without a hassle, Kudos to Hybrid Revolts willingness to meet me on the PA turnpike, and Kudos to Honda for fixing it for free. I won’t buy another Hybrid but I will buy another Honda at the same dealer! Who says customer service is dead? Not me!
#992 of 1530 Re: Software Update for 2009 HCHII. Any 2009 or 2010 owners around? [Ogre_GEV]
Mar 18, 2011 (4:30 pm)
I've not been able to access my internet for awhile, so I'm a bit late responding to this reply, but the update applied to my '09 was TSB 10-034, according to the information received from the service manager with whom I have been dealing. They could not find a TSB on my car because it specifies 06-08s, however, I was experiencing the same difficulties. They had applied the first update when I first took the car in for IMA and engine failure. If that was a mistake on their part, whatever. It ruined the car I had been driving for 18 months, and even with the subsequent update, it is still not performing as it was in the beginning; and no, my driving habits have not changed. I'm still a little old lady and drive like one.
#993 of 1530 Facebook page for unhappy HCH Owners
Mar 20, 2011 (9:29 pm)
To all HCH owners unhappy with the reccomended software update for the hybrid battery problem, there is a Facebook page to share stories, links, and try and figure out what we can do together. The name of the Facebook page is "Honda Civic Hybrid - Honda Corporation Has No Honor". Check it out, Like It, and contribute. We can post here to others and that it cathartic, or we can organize and show Honda they are creating alot of angry customers who will not buy another Honda if this is how they treat their customers.
#994 of 1530 Re: Facebook page for unhappy HCH Owners [materas]
Mar 21, 2011 (1:11 pm)
Since Honda updated software in my 2006 HCH last August, my mileage has dropped steadily. It went from an average of 35-38 mpg to 25-28 mpg. The dealer gave it a 5 mile test drive a month or so ago and claimed it reached 40.6 mpg. I do not believe them; even to suspect they may have manipulated the gauges. They examined the car and said it was operating normally -- ????? It hasn't reached 40 mpg since it was new. They tried to tell me that the drop in mileage is due to "driving habits." No way! Nothing about my driving has changed. They even had the audacity to tell me they've not had a similar complaint. (I experienced the same patronization from Honda when I had a windshield problem.) The service repair rep told me the mileage drop was probably due to the software upgrade, but the official dealership and the corporate office of Honda is denying it. I sent a letter to Honda Long Beach's manager asking that they demonstrate to me first hand in another test drive how they achieved 40 mpg. So far I haven't heard from him. I am getting some independent test drives from authorized Honda dealers and then turning it over to the NTSB. Honda just doesn't step up to the plate and admit their technical problems.
Trying to blame this mileage issue on the driver is ridiculous!
#995 of 1530 HONDA DOES NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR PROBLEMS
Mar 21, 2011 (12:59 pm)
#996 of 1530 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [Ogre_GEV]
Mar 22, 2011 (3:47 am)
I teach people how to drive their cars economically - in person - on test drives at least once per week.
So we now have full disclosure about your work in this field. 60mpg in an HCH? Really?
What you are doing on this thread is muddying the fact that Honda's second-generation hybrid Civic is a flop, a defective product that never performed to Honda's claimed fuel economy for the majority of its customers and has an IMA battery system that wears out prematurely.
To worsen matters, Honda has decided not to replace the batteries until they have failed completely and has instead imposed on us owners an "update" to the IMA firmware intended to prolong the battery system's life at the additional expense of fuel economy and the vehicle's ability to accelerate and maintain sufficient speed on the highway.
#997 of 1530 Re: IMA/battery failure [Ogre_GEV]
Mar 22, 2011 (4:32 am)
I would just like to share my experience with an idle battery, not that it is typical. I have an '03 HCH, which developed an IMA problem 2 years ago: the IMA and check engine light came on constantly, even after reset of the error codes. Nobody could figure out the problem, so the car sat idle for six months, while I studied information available about the hybrid system. After extesive diagnostics of the system, on my own, I found the problem, which turned out to be a bad connection in a terminal. I repaired the connection and everything started working perfectly once again. Two years later the battery is still working perfectly with the system, and I now have 115k miles. Maybe things changed after the first generation.
#998 of 1530 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [ttomaka]
Mar 22, 2011 (5:31 am)
The full disclosure of my work is that I repair these batteries (which I have not been hiding). I teach people how to drive efficiently or even how to hypermile if they wish. I also help them with information about related car problems. I also help them get warranty battery replacements when they are not aware they are eligible or have been lied to by dealers.
Email me privately and I'll send you some photos of odometers. 60 highway is doable for most people in a CVT gen1 civic. 63 in a MT. Driving conventionally (with traffic instead of the slow lane), 55mpg.
Does the battery wear out in the Gen 2s faster than it should, yes! Would replacing them all help? No. There are plenty of owners going through 2nd or even 3rd batteries. For those that drive infrequently, 5 batteries are not unheard of. If they changed them all now, the problem would just start all over again and there would be a huge number of Civics with failed batteries in 2015 with no warranties and zero resale value because they're all dropping dead at the same time.
Honda is TRYING to fix the problem, not just put an identical battery back in. The software changes SHOULD significantly increase the lifespan of the Gen2 batteries. The ones that are already gone will still fail and some of the marginal ones will return to health.
The problem is that the only solution to making the battery last longer is to protect it, which makes it unavailable under certain usage patterns (acceleration when almost empty) or significantly reduces fuel economy (keeping the battery from getting empty in the first place). Those who naturally drive without assist most of the time tend to keep their batteries full at no penalty to their mpg, and they therefore have full use of their (full) battery when they need it. That is why some people here are NOT experiencing any loss of economy or acceleration from the updates.
If you are experiencing a loss of mpg, you can try experimenting for a few days to see if changing you driving style will improve your mileage. Simply accelerate gently. I often tell people to imagine there is a raw egg taped to the accelerator and they should try not to break it. most people find that their morning commutes take only a couple minutes longer (I deal with lots of Beltway commuters) and that they pick up 5-10 mpg. The goal is to minimize the use of assist and to keep the tachometer revs down below 2500 when possible (2000 is better).
I'm not telling you to do anything. I'm not telling you that you drive "wrong". This may not even apply to you. I'm just suggesting that you try it. If you do and you are successful, you'll have your old car back WITH the battery-life extending software.
And remember that 75mph will reduce mpg by 10%-25% in ANY car when compared to 65mph due to wind resistance, and that for a 30 mile commute, 75 mph will only save 4 minutes over 65mph. Wind resistance starts to become a factor over 50mph and gets progressively worse as speed increases.
#999 of 1530 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [Ogre_GEV]
Mar 22, 2011 (7:57 am)
I appreciate your efforts to educate drivers on how to maximize their fuel efficiency and repair the dying batteries of Civic hybrids. But I and many others on this forum are well versed in hypermiling and other techniques to get our fuel mileage as high as possible.
When I owned my Civic hybrid, I was driving consciously to maximize fuel economy. The performance and the fuel efficiency of my car deteriorated when the batteries began discharging frequently and it got worse when I did the software update. My driving style did not materially change except when I felt unsafe, such as having no battery when I was trying to turn left against traffic. I did this for four months and complained to Honda and then sold it at a loss. Maybe the batteries would have revived after a few more months of frustrating and stressful driving but I had had it.
The reality is driving especially in the city requires adequate and predictable acceleration and the Civic's crappy batteries and Honda's software update has made them unsafe and unreliable for a significant share of drivers.
#1000 of 1530 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [dhilldiner]
Mar 22, 2011 (9:58 am)
I strongly agree with you, dhilldiner. Given the severity of the problems we are experiencing with the HCH II's fuel efficiency and lack of power, it galls me when apologists for Honda come on a forum like this and suggest that our problem stems from our driving habits, not the car.
Just accelerate more gently does not come close to explaining 33 mpg on my 2008 HCH, which is where I am now, after receiving the firmware "update."
Honda needs to fix their problems, or face continued damage to their brand reputation. I have seen no indication from Honda that they will even admit to having a problem.