Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
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Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
#837 of 1535 2009 Civic Hybrid IMA and bad gas mileage
Dec 15, 2010 (9:46 am)
Let me begin this message with the exact same words I just used when I was talking to American Honda Corp Rep: I WILL NEVER PURCHASE ANOTHER HONDA VEHICLE AGAIN!
Here's my experience (and I live in a cold climate): I have been experiencing declining gas mileage since 6 months after purchase of the vehicle. It has gotten worse over the past year to the point where I am getting about 75% of the gas mileage that was "estimated" on the sticker. And it will certainly drop further after my recent experience. Last week, the IMA alert and the Engine light both went on. I took the car to the dealer. I was informed by service that Honda had issued a "software upgrade" (Bulletin 09-025) to resolve the issue I was having. The dealer didn't seem to be convinced that this was really the problem and when I questioned him further about the battery failure issues of earlier models of this car he told me to call American Honda. On the invoice for the repair he typed "Need to reinspect vehicle if IMA light returns". That wasn't a very comforting repair comment. So I did call American Honda and got no meaningful explanation to the question from the frontline and requested that a supervisor call me back. Meanwhile, I have been driving the car this past week and the gas mileage hit an all time low - 29.3 miles per gallon! Just prior to writing this message I did get a call from the supervisor at American Honda. The thrust of the conversation was that "yes the software upgrade made to my car would decrease my gas mileage, but it would extend the life of the batteries". What????? So the batteries aren't lasting as long as they should and have obvious issues, they won't recall the 2009 batteries and the consumer suffers by getting poor gas mileage/ higher than projected operating costs.
Thanks Honda. I believe you could do better. I certainly know that I can - with a different manufacturer!
#838 of 1535 Honda's Pathetic Hybrids
Dec 15, 2010 (9:33 am)
I am surprised that Honda is not being forced the change their MPG rating since they are intentionally lowering them. This is not only bait and switch, but plain fraud on their part. Of course they can make the batteries last longer - just put them in your cellar. But then the mpg rating is fraudulent, and we are paying a premium for the slowest car on the road.
#839 of 1535 Re: Honda's Pathetic Hybrids [jcihak]
Dec 15, 2010 (10:17 am)
Anyone know a good class action attorney? I'd prefer not to go that route, but if Honda's not acting in good faith, maybe it's time for the owners of these hybrids to demand some form of compensation. With gas over $3.00 per gallon, I'm feeling the financial pain - at the pump and thru monthly car payments with a premium built in for a non-existent feature = MPG'S!!
And what about resale value? If used car buyers know that the batteries in these vehicles are likely to fail shortly after purchase, they won't pay as much for the cars -- if they'd even buy them at all. And if they were going to purchase them for their great gas mileage, all they have to do is push a button to see MPG over the life of the vehicle to date and they wouldn't be interested in these cars. All in all, we've been screwed.
#840 of 1535 Re: Honda's Pathetic Hybrids [hpdriver]
Dec 15, 2010 (10:33 am)
It appears that this car has a basic design flaw and Honda is just trying to weather the storm anyway they can. They need to be held accountable. It seems that the batteries are undersized and thereby fail sooner than they should. So Honda's answer is to use the batteries less in order to extend the life of the undersized batteries at the expense of mpg. They should be required to compensate every owner for this defugality in an amount no less than the initial price premium or use the batteries as originally programmed and replace the deteriorated batteries free for up to 200K miles. I agree that to accomplish something like that would require a lawsuit.
#841 of 1535 Re: Honda's Pathetic Hybrids [bossless]
Dec 15, 2010 (11:22 am)
What about Federal and state agencies? Could they be of any assistance in these kinds of matters. Clearly the EPA should be interested in the variance from miles per gallon on sticker and literature. FTC?? And what about state attorney generals. This "undersized battery" issue would appear to be a bit fraudulent. Would any state "lemon" laws apply?
Any guidance would be appreciated. I am willing to pursue the matter further.
#842 of 1535 Re: Honda's Pathetic Hybrids [bossless]
Dec 15, 2010 (5:31 pm)
I agree. A class action lawsuit is in order. But if it comes, the last thing I want as a remedy is to be offered a discount on another Honda product.
#843 of 1535 Re: Honda's Pathetic Hybrids [markrock]
Dec 15, 2010 (6:35 pm)
I believe the judge shot down that settlement - the 2 plaintiffs got thousands, the attorney's got $3 million and the other owners got a $1000 "gift" certificate on the future purchase of a f***ing HONDA!!!! That isn't going to happen.
I'm thinking that the best course of action, besides contacting the EPA, the FTC and the Illinois attorney general, is to file a small claims court action. The limits in Illinois are $10,000 - the premium on the purchase of the hybrid over a similar non-hybrid Civic wasn't that much. So I'm thinking about computing what would be a "fair" settlement for a car that is rapidly losing value and filing a suit individually. I shouldn't have to do this, but I believe that Honda is forcing me into it. If everyone took similar action in states where the limitations permitted such suits, it might make Honda think twice about continuing the sale of DEFECTIVE vehicles without offering to legitimately repair them.
But here is the bottom line to anyone considering the purchase of a Honda automobile: Honda has become a BAD company. Very BAD. They do not stand behind their product and that is just plain WRONG. And I will continue to state that fact wherever and whenever possible. DO NOT BUY A HONDA. They are no longer a symbol of quality in the automobile industry.
And that is sad, very sad......
#844 of 1535 Car Would Not Start Until Third Try
Dec 21, 2010 (5:19 pm)
last nite (it is cold here but the car is in an underground garage) my car took three turns of the key to start. The first two times nothing but a click. Third time it starts and I just thought I was not paying attention and had not turned the key . Did it again this AM and as usual, by the time I pull out of the garage (about 1/10th of a mile) the IMA is down at two bars (sigh!) but I wondered if my regular battery had an issue. When it did it at my third stop I took the car to the Honda dealer. They have TWO battery testers and seem super-impressed with them. One showed it was fine but I asked them to keep it and wait until it was cold, which they did. Then they told me the second one said the batter was great too!
But it was all very very odd...originally, my car was sitting out front. They drove it from the service check-in and parked it there. Then they went out and started it. They said they had no problem but poof it disappeared from site. I pick it five hours later when they tell me they cannot duplicate the problem but it has an odor of something being done and that sort of odd glue smell (very vague) you sometimes get when they do something with the IMA. Anyhow, I leave there with what I refer to as my "personal hybrid piece of junk" and never the rest of the day see two bars, the IMA is like fully-charged and happy and my mileage for the rest of this day was about 4MPG higher than it has been. The mileage had decreased after the software patch was installed to the point I was thinking about getting rid of the car even though I really bought it because of the PZEV. You will never convince me that today they did not tweak software and just do not want to admit it. I just wish they could be more honest when there are issues and just admit it.
#845 of 1535 Re: Car Would Not Start Until Third Try [hybridpatsy]
Dec 21, 2010 (7:26 pm)
Hybridpatsy, I'm a bit confused by your post. What do you think the dealer did that "cured" the software upgrade problem?? Did they install new batteries? Or what?
#846 of 1535 NTHSA Questionaire
Dec 22, 2010 (12:05 am)
I received my Questionaire via email the first week of December but have been too busy to fill it out (I WILL fill it out and send it back to them). It's a short questionaire. If anyone wants to contact NHTSA about the HCH's problems, for what it's worth, this is who sent it to me:
NHTSA, US DOT
1200 New Jersey Ave, SE
Washington DC, 20590
I'm sure they have a telephone number you could call as well.
Sorry folks, I've just been way too busy to be on here lately or read all the posts (I skimmed some), but saw someone posting that he/she hadn't received the questioaire yet, so wanted to put this out there in case others wish to inform NHTSA about this.