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Hybrid Vehicles Honda Civic Hybrid Honda Civic Hybrid IMA Problems
185 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 2:36 PM
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I just got a 09 HCH this past weekend and was wondering if my experiences with the IMA system are normal or if I have a problem. In town and on flat highways I get about 55 MPG (according to the trip computer) which I am loving. The IMA seems to readily charge/discharge when the battery power is above 50%, but it fails to utilize the battery/IMA below about 50%. This is fine when I am in city driving, because I only need a little assistance getting going and the battery recharges to full fairly quickly, but when I drive on hills (which I often do on my commute between Phoenix and my home in the mountains of Arizona, I need the IMA for longer stretches of time. When I attempt to go up a hill, assuming my battery charge is full or near full, the IMA will assist for about the first minute (about 1 mile) and then the IMA stops assisting and the gas engine has to propel the car unassisted. The IMA just doesn't seem to want to assist if the battery power is below 50%, even if I am going up a steep hill and flooring the gas, which I would think would be enough to get the IMA to kick in. The battery is supposed to drain well below 50% before the electric motor stops assisting, right? Further, how long should a full charge last when going up a moderate incline? I read in someone else's post that their charge would only last about 2 minutes which they thought was problematic, which would lead me to believe the battery going from 100% to 50% in about a minute might be unusually fast. Since I just got the car, I don't know what is considered normal. I suspect part of the battery pack might be bad. I also suspect it might be because the car was sitting unused for about four months in the dealer's back lot before I bought it (which is why I got such a great deal on it). When I first test drove it, it had 9 miles and the main battery had to be jump started to get the car going, which the salesman said was because it hadn't been driven in several months. It wasn't until after I bought the car and read the owners manual, specifically the section on storing the car unused, that I read that not running the car at least once a month can cause permanent damage to the battery pack, so I suspect that might be the case. I just wanted to check with those who have had their HCH's for awhile though to confirm that my experience is in fact not normal. Thanks Tim in Arizona
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Replying to: timaz (Mar 31, 2009 9:42 pm) Your battery is brand-spanking new. The odds of an imbalance are small. Here's what I think is wrong. The dealer never did a battery learn procedure. Because the 12V battery was dead, it forgot the parameters. It has no idea where full and empty are. Have them reset the IMA system and relearn the battery. Make sure they do it for free.
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Replying to: Ogre_GEV (Mar 31, 2009 10:09 pm) I go up steep mountain highways on a regular basis, without cruise control, if my batteries have an 80% charge the IMA system will provide 2-4 minutes of assist. This variance is dependant up how much depand I place on the IMA with the position of the gas petal. If the IMA is running at 100%, I may get only 2 minutes of full blown assist before the batteries levels are down to 3 bars or so. At 3 or so bars, my IMA simply tries to limit the amount of IMA assistance but it will allow me to "burst" several times utilizing IMA at 100%. I'm able to easily drain my batteries going up long moutain hills if I'm not careful and don't plan ahead. And not planning ahead isn't an option given the Civic Hybrid has to run it's engine at 5200 RPM to simply make it up a hill on it's own (in Cruise Control mode or if the IMA batteries are drained). That is absolutely unacceptable and for the driving I do, makes the car a task to drive. On the flip side, if all you do is city computting to work the Honda can make sense....but I feel there are a good number of Civic owners who didn't fully understand the limitations of the Honda IMA system when they bought there car. One of my biggest complaints about the Civic Hybrid is the IMA electric motor. Because it only provides 80 or so lbs of torque, the whole Hybrid system is just to inadequate for a whole host of driving conditions. The Prius electric motor provides almost 300 lbs of torque and thus does not suffer from the same issues. The same battery power in the Prius will last longer simply because it can run it's motor at 33% power and provide the same power the Civic IMA does at 100% capacity. I guess that's what Honda gets for not developing their own technology and simply purchasing Toyota's old technology. After 48,000 miles, I've had enough of Honda....I'm selling my Hybrid and buying an 09 Chevy Malibu LTZ (it gets 33mpg on the highway). I can't wait to drive a car on the highway, set the cruise control, and enjoy the drive like God intented!!!! |
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Replying to: sholmes717 (Apr 01, 2009 8:25 am) Totally incorrect. Honda did not purchase Toyota's old technology. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Jan 16, 2009 3:22 pm) Could you tell us where we can read up on CARB states extending hybrid component warranties to 10Y/150K (Federal law URL)? Thank you. K |
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| I have a 03 HCH CVT that needs a new battery. My car has 92k on it, dealership wants $2400 to replace it, this is down from their initial offer of $3100. Does someone in CA or another CARB state want to buy my car, you'd get a great car and a brand new battery? I'm in Texas. | |
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Replying to: sholmes717 (Apr 01, 2009 8:25 am) Also, on some hills it seems to not assist at 6 of 8 bars of battery charge now so it seems to be getting worse. Other times it will assist until the battery it down to 4 or rarely 3 bars (like before). I have also noticed the battery will sometimes seem to drop very quickly from 6 bars down to 4, in about 10 seconds or less. I haven't actually seen it do it while I am staring at it (seeing as how I am also trying to pay attention to the road), but I look at it one moment and it is at 6 bars charged, and the IMA system is assisting, and then I look back 5-10 seconds later and it is at 4 bars. I described this to the dealer service guy and he said that the battery charge indicator isn't actually always reflective of the actual charge - it may just be an estimate. He also said that formerly Honda got a lot of complaints from people with HCHs that the battery would run down to one or 2 bars and then there wouldn't be enough power for emergencies so Honda reprogrammed the IMA system to not get so low. But that doesn't really make sense, unless it is reserving the 3 bars of power for when it is really needed (like when you slam on the gas), but even when I slam on the gas and run the tacaometer to about 6000 rpm, it still won't assist. Any other wisdom or advice? If the battery (or part of it) is bad, will the IMA light necessarily come on? Thanks Tim
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Replying to: timaz (Apr 16, 2009 8:16 am) That is called a downward recal. They will start happening more and more frequently. On an Insight, when they start happening daily, a P1447 will usually occur. What is happening is that the car thinks it has a half charge and suddenly detects that it has bottomed out and starts the process of determining the new "empty" point. The reason this is happening is because the capacity of the battery is decreasing. Some of the cells are not taking much of a charge, so they don't have much to give. The car has to go by the weakest cell even though the rest have plenty of charge. Reconditioning all the cells and replacing the bad and marginal ones will correct the problem. Your car is heading for a P1433 error. When you get it, you may want to consider rebuilding the battery to save money.
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Replying to: Ogre_GEV (Apr 16, 2009 3:22 pm) 
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