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Hybrid Vehicles Honda Civic Hybrid Honda Civic Hybrid IMA Problems
171 messages, Last post on Nov 21, 2009 at 7:27 AM
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Hey all, Thought I would post on here a quick synopsis of my Honda story. It's similar to a lot of others issues that have posted on the forum as well. For the first 50,000 miles my car got roughly 42-45mpg on average. Then over a 2-3 week time period it drastically decreased and is only getting 32-34mpg on average. 1. I took my car to local dealership and told there was not a problem. I thought to myself ok it's not too bad yet I will just keep an eye on it. Of course it got worse, so... 2. Take my car back to dealership. They tell me they duplicated my issue. Called Honda tech line who told them they were working on a car with almost the same issue. Tech line told them they replaced the battery and loaded new software into the car but neither one fixed the problem. The dealership's resolution was to WAIT for a fix? Hmmm. 3. Called honda corporate. Was told to get a "second opinion" so I took my car to the only other dealership in Tucson, AZ (Dobbs Honda) who told me they also duplicated my problem, called Honda tech line, Tech line faxed them a Questionnaire surrounding my problem that I needed to fill out so they could fax back to them and then I needed to wait. 4. Called Honda corporate back, was asssigned a case manager who I spoke with about my IMA issues (just like everyone else is having here) and he said he would talk to the dealerships and tech line then get back to me within 1 week. He called me back and told me my car was "operating within normal circumstances" and that there was nothing wrong with it. Heat can cause it to start its safety feature which automatically turns itself off so it doesnt get damaged, etc. He also told me to read page 76 (I think that's the page) of my manual. 5. I stayed in contact with him (Morris is his name, my case manager) over several months, continued called and expressing my dissatisfaction. Finally today he called me back again and I had a rather lengthy discussion with him. Told him I wanted either my car replaced or a $4000 credit applied to the remainder of my loan because if I wanted Civic EX gas mileage then I would have purchased a Civic EX for $4000 less than a Hybrid. He basically told me to screw myself, wouldn't give me his supervisor's name and extension, etc, etc. I told him I was going to no longer purchase Honda products, no longer refer people to Honda, no longer get my 2 Honda's serviced at Honda dealerships, file a NHTSA safety complaint, file a BBB complaint because I was blatantly lied to regarding Honda tech line's MYTH car that EVERYONE is told they have worked on, consistently send letters to corporate, my local dealership, and finally contact KGUN 9 News on your side here in Tucson, AZ to try and get my story aired. After coming across this forum I decided that I am indeed going to do each and everyone of these things, but I also might speak with a lawyer regarding a class action lawsuit because it seems that there are more of us out there than I had expected! Thanks for listening to my story, Sean Tucson, AZ
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Replying to: tonito (Jan 09, 2009 10:06 am) I wonder if the warranty period for replaced IMA batteries is like this in other places. " There is a Federal law that requires a minimum of 8 years / 100K miles on the hybrid components, which includes the main traction battery. So your battery replacement should be under warranty. I am pretty sure this warranty applies to all hybrids built after 2004, but I'm not sure about before that. CARB states are provided with a 10 year / 150K warranty on the hybrid components.
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Replying to: baboot (Jan 06, 2009 8:28 am) The only real advantage to IMA over a dual mode hybrid is that it doesn't interfere with the powertrain if the battery stops functioning. So in theory you could drive it, at least for a while, without the battery. But I wouldn't recommend it - the vehicle was really meant for hybrid driving, not ICE driving, and besides 1.3L is just a DOG without the IMA... |
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We have our replaced battery now, and it does work. However, we have not seen any improvement in mpg. Now, to be fair, this is Minnesota, and this one of the coldest winters in the last 15 years, but I would have expected a new hybrid to do better than my 2000 Civic LX, which dropped down to 28 mpg at the "height" of the cold snap. (On a separate topic, my LX refused to start for the first time . . . but at -25, I suppose I can cut is some slack for once!) The hybrid seems to be in the upper 20's mpg around town. The dealer was unaware of any similar complaints, but said to bring it in to be looked at. Anybody else seeing a significant drop off in mpg in cold weather? Note: I will excuse the Phoenix posters from offering any insights or snide comments. 
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My battery is toast too at 127K miles. I have the dreaded P1447 error: replace your battery pack. I was told $2700 by Honda here in upstate NY, with around $300 of that is labor. I tried to reset the condition by disconnecting the engine's battery three times but after the 50-70 system test miles the IMA and check engine light come on. Today while driving when the IMA & engine light went on, later on I noticed the IMA light is off with the check engine light remaining on. Hmm... And naturally my car inspection is overdue. My garage won't pass it with the error. So now I have no inspection sticker with the car totally drivable getting 45 mpg in January and I have the dumb error that I now have to address very soon. I am wondering about the ebay used batteries for sale, or a junk yard's... besides very limited guarantees and saving quite a bit of $$$, anythng else to consider? How heavy is the battery pack? How difficult would it be for an intermediate level mechanic (me) to change the battery pack? If one ensures the battery's big power switch is off while one works, how hard/dangerous can this be to change? Any other alternatives possible?
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Replying to: MB_in_MN (Jan 17, 2009 9:55 am) We bought a 2009 HCH and live in Fargo. I was driving home from work at -37 (-53 windchill) driving 57mph at light throttle on level terrain (is there any other in ND). My IMA/check engine lights came on at this point. The engine temp was about 1/2 its optimum temperature (3-4 bars). I took it into the dealer (Corwin Honda) and found the battery had failed to communicate to the computer. The batteries would still charge and assist, but there was a point that triggered the error codes. Corwin removed the codes, drove the car for 20 minutes attempting to recode the battery failure, and gave us a questionnaire to fill out if this were to happen again so they can send documentation to Corporate Honda for testing. I suggested it might not be a bad idea to test vehicles in the upper midwest during winter, as they are also tested in extreme heat down in AZ or CA. So far I have been achieving between 35 and 45 mpg. This depends on how I drive (typically no faster than 70 with a light throttle and driving by the econ instead of the speedometer) and how long I have let the car run idle, as this will decrease the displayed mpg in the dash. If I am in no hurry and do this carefully, I can achieve 60 mpg on the interstate with speeds up to 65 mph, slight tail wind, no CC, and above 0 degree weather. Hopefully this does not occur again, but I am ready with a record book of my driving habits so I can best determine the drivability during the time of computer coding. Cold weather will drop fuel mileage no matter what simply because of the air density and heat transfer between gradients inside the cylinder heads. One idea I have is to tie in a heated battery blanket into a block heater cord, so that when the car is plugged in both the engine block and battery bank "preheat." Perhaps someday infrared technology will be used for window defrosters and solar power technology can keep the powertrain warm before travel. Being an engineer, I can always dream of the future, because it will never be the same come the next sunrise. |
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My HCH literally died two days ago, and then restarted. When I took it to the first honda place, they said it was the IMA. The battery needed to be replaced at a quote of 4,000 plus labor. The next place said closer to 5,000 but that it was the same problem. My warranty ran out 1,000 miles ago (987 to be exact)-- honda has the 80,000 mile warranty. Even with my extended warranty, it was not covered. I then took it to a ford dealership where I know the owner, and they said the same exact thing-- The car had depreciated so much, that it was worth almost nothing at the point of trade in--- even at carmax-- because of the obvious battery problem. Apparently it had been dead for a while-- no light came on, but my gas milage went way south. I thought I had at least another 20,000 or so miles until this problem. I will never buy honda again! Does anyone else know of a problem like this? Thanks!
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| I must say I am discouraged when I read these postings. I too have a Hybrid - 2009 Civic with 6,000 miles and am also having IMA indicator light problems. My dealer tells me it is a battery problem but now Honda wants to "borrow" my car to try to duplicate the problem. Looking at all your postings it appears that they have no idea how to solve the problem and it will continue for some time. Good thing I purchased the extended warranty. | |
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Replying to: astephans (Jan 30, 2009 11:46 am) Bottom line, I can't believe it failed so close after 80K. I saw some references in this post to certain states covering warranties on batteries for 8 years / 100K. Does anyone have any specific details on the federal or state law? I'd wanted to check it out to see what rights I may have. I live in MA. I have a 2003 Civic Hybrid.
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Replying to: SeanGerner (Jan 09, 2009 2:43 pm) My 2006 civic hybrid has not performed properly since October 2007. It has been in the shop 8 times for the problem, but Honda is unable to fix it. I have reported problems to the local dealer's service department by email many more times. I have been told that there is no problem, that is a "characteristic of the vehicle" and that the loss of performance is "normal at this time". I have also been told that I have to "wait for American Honda to update the software in the computer" on the vehicle. Once I was told to "direct the AC vents toward the back seat of the car to cool the IMA battery" when the battery discharges in hot weather. The loss of power when the IMA fails to assist renders the car very sluggish and dangerous in city or freeway driving when normal power may be needed. A report was filed with the national highway traffic safety administration at safercar.Gov (complaint number 10241683) due to the safety issue of degraded performance. A Honda customer service customer case was opened n012008-08-2600489. The car has recently failed to assist in cold weather conditions also. Due to the number of complaints I see on the automotive forums, it appears to be a design defect and/or engineering problem. Honda has responded with this (spelling errors are theirs): After reviewing the case history on the consumers vehicle, it has been found that the consumer's vehicle has no defeft. The "problem" the customer is experiencing is a product characteristic of the vehicle, and there is no repair for a characteristic. Initial Response Summary This is a product characteristic. No repairs avaiable. I think all owners who have had problems should at least file a complaint with the NHTSA at www.safercar.gov and with the LA BBB. I think Sean's idea about a class action lawsuit is looking better and better. |
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