Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
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Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
#532 of 1532 Follow-up on Software Upgrade - after 550 Miles
Aug 20, 2010 (10:03 am)
This supplements my previous posts and the recent software update. 2008 Honda Civic, 24,000 miles, Las Vegas summer environment
My mileage is up by about 4 MPG to about 42 MPH - however, my battery doesn't hold a charge very long. I leave my house with 5 or 6 bars and going-up 1 fairly mild hill brings me down to 2 bars rapidly. Then after a while, it goes back to 4 (sometimes 5) bars, and kind of remains there. At 2 bars, idle cut-out is disabled and acceleration is really negatively impacted. When its 100 deg or more, idle cut-off often disables even with 4 bars and you have to really push the gas to get any assist.
I'm getting concerned about the frequency of situations where there's no assist available. I wonder if this will improve when the weather cools in September.
What I can't figure-out, is why my mileage is going-up when I seem to be relying on the gas engine significantly more than before. I'm starting to think my battery is degraded - wonder if it will come back over time?????
#533 of 1532 Re: IMA battery warranty. [mainiax]
Aug 20, 2010 (10:27 am)
> I went back and read every post to Aug 1 and I only find 6 posts mentioning anything good about the upgrade software and of the 6 posts, 1 person posted 5 times (487,449,426,416,404) so where do you find the people you mention? Surely isn't from here and can't be from your business because the people contacting you need a battery replacement so the upgrade didn't help them. I lost count with all the HCH-II complaints and posts about the new software not helping.
In this thread alone, I find seven people who had the update who also had previous updates or are new to the car. I'm not counting those that didn't have the latest update or those that had never had any update before.
Of those seven,
3 say the battery improved
3 say the battery stayed the same
1 says the battery got worse
2 say mpg and performance improved
2 say mpg and performance stayed the same
3 say mpg and performance got worse
Obviously, the improved battery is coming at the expense of mpg/performance. I consider an improvement to the battery to be an accomplishment, now they just have to get it to perform a bit better. If they can keep the battery charge up, they can improve performance, but it will likely impact mpg for some drivers.
Almost everyone here is still under warranty, so I would not have any interaction with them. Those that are not will not contact me until their battery has failed, so I still won't see the success stories.
#534 of 1532 Re: Follow-up on Software Upgrade - after 550 Miles [las2002]
Aug 20, 2010 (10:30 am)
> What I can't figure-out, is why my mileage is going-up when I seem to be relying on the gas engine significantly more than before.
The most likely reason is that your car used to spend a large amount of energy charging the battery. Now that it is functioning better, it accepts more of the charge and therefore costs less mpg to charge it.
Time will tell, but recals don't only happen when a battery gets worse, they happen whenever the capacity is different than it was. If your battery is gradually improving, it will recal whenever it discovers this. Let's see what happens in the fall.
#536 of 1532 Honda software update for IMA battery
Aug 20, 2010 (4:34 pm)
Do not have the update installed. I did only to find that the gas mileage and battery assist is greatly reduced. Today, 8/20, my honda was back in the shop because of the adverse affects of the upgrade only to be informed that "even our regional honda corporate guy is upset with the upgrade on his company car". When the service tech approach the regional rep about my car and started to tell him about my complaint of power loss, he responded "and I guess his gas mileage is also affected".
The dealership explained to me that unfortunately they cannot do anything about the issue and that they have to write on the service report "car is performing as per specifications".
Time to sell the HONDA!
#537 of 1532 Any noise from Honda
Aug 21, 2010 (5:22 am)
Is Honda still keeping quiet?
They must be having some heated meetings about this problem. I'd like to think that they won't bury their heads in the sand and keep us stranded. I don't see any winners with this scenario. If they don't improve the IMA battery then they are doomed, doesn't the Insight car use the same type battery. Toyota is coming out clean, Honda should follow suit. Man! if you can not trust your Honda, then we are doomed. You know you get crap when you buy Chinese products, Japanese is supposed to be quality.I'll go back to GM, at least parts are cheaper and more available. my 2 cents.
#538 of 1532 NHTSA Complaint
Aug 22, 2010 (9:46 am)
If we file a complaint with NHTSA, I wonder if that affects the trade-in value of our cars via the VIN number? As previously mentioned, my mileage with the update has improved, but the non-availability of assist, is at times, very disturbing. I'm also wondering how much my battery deteriorated in the almost 2 and 1/2 years prior to the update?
I was hoping to keep this car for a long time and am concerned that Honda battery participation goes down to (I believe) to 60% of the price after 3 years.
#539 of 1532 Bye Bye Honda Civic Hybrid
Aug 22, 2010 (2:37 pm)
I had my car in multiple times and finally decided to take the loss and trade the vehicle. I did not feel comfortable selling the car outright, and did not really feel great about trading it either but decided that was the way to go. The acceleration was simply unacceptable without the IMA working, which was happening EVERY time I drove the car. I took many videos of this happening and gave a copy to my dealer here in Cleveland. Hopefully they passed it on to the "factory rep." Even if they had replaced the battery, I cannot afford to do so out of warranty every couple of years!
As I was about to trade the car to another dealership, the dealer I bought the Honda from called and said they would prefer to buy the car back. I got high trade in value, which was a little better than I would have done, but still a far cry from private sale value and even further from retail.
I cannot tell you the relief I felt once I was done with this ordeal. I figure it cost me about $450 per month to own this car. Shame on Honda!
Be sure to check out the LA Times article from August 13th. The Emissions Board in California is going after Honda for issuing the software update (which affects mileage and performance) without consulting them. I guess that with the updated software, these cares may be in violation of emissions standards. So much for GREEN!
#540 of 1532 Re: IMA battery warranty. [mainiax]
Aug 22, 2010 (2:42 pm)
Did you get your full purchase price, and did you have to buy another Honday?
#541 of 1532 Re: IMA battery warranty. [motorcarshybrd]
Aug 22, 2010 (7:06 pm)
I think all States have their own lemon law repurchase rules but here in Maine it is: Provide your original purchase agreement with all mandatory fees (including doc fee and sales tax) and from this amount deduct the lowest of either of the following 2 calculations: 10% of the total purchase price OR (.55 cents / 3) x mileage at time of arbitration. I had less than 10,000 miles on the car in the 34 months before arbitration so my deduction was just a little less than $1,800! The 55 cents is the amount IRS allows per mile for business use. The 10% allowance would have been around $2,500 so it was the $1,800 used for the deduction from the total purchase price. I am VERY happy with the repurchase payment and also of having the experience of owning a hybrid. I will NOT purchase another hybrid or any all electric vehicle for many years to come. I have not purchased another car yet, want to see what the Chevy Cruse is all about.
For those of you having battery problems, SoC recals many times a day and you still have time remaining on your 36 mo/36,000 bumper to bumper warranty then I would get an application from the Better Business Bureau Auto Line (phone # in your consumer info manual) and start a case against Honda. In my opinion, Honda does not have a leg to stand on. The car is not operating the same way it did when you purchased it and it becomes unsafe when in recal mode with no assist. The BBB process is not fun but it was worth it. You do not need an attorney but you will have to present your case yourself at the hearing. If you do file with the BBB make sure you insist that you want to go to arbitration.