Last post on Dec 09, 2013 at 4:52 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
#367 of 1535 Honda forcing new "updates" on everyone now
Jul 30, 2010 (11:52 pm)
Well it seems that Honda's battery problem is widespread enough now, where they are not just disabling most of the hybrid's power for those who complain or need new battery packs (as I did about a year ago) -- but EVERYONE now. Knowing that if they don't tone down and largely disable the hybrid in all their cars out there, they'll be changing hybrid batteries by the thousands.
Just today I got notice (in my case, a robocall) on my ansewring machine about the software "update" for all 2006-2008 HCHs. I assume they didn't bother to check to see that my car has already been pretty much stripped of its hybrid power, and assume they are simply contacting ALL owners of the 2006-2008 HCHs.
Sadly, only a small number of people (probably under 1%) will bother to investigate, and simply go in to get the fix done, thinking it's an important safety issue. As we all know, IT IS NOT.
As Honda themselves stated so simply, the purpose is simply to extend the battery life (by stripping away most of the hybrid's power via the software) so they won't have to replace their defective batteries by the thousands:
"ALL unsold units should have the updated software installed prior to customer delivery. The update will reduce the likelihood of a MIL code being set and extend the life of the IMA battery."
This has NOTHING to do with safety, but with their bottom line and screwing the buyers who will now have nothing like the car they bought as it was represented.
I posted at length the hassle I had to go through to get my deteriorated batteries replaced (search my previous posts)... but am I to assume this is simply the same software "update" that was forced upon me a couple months ago (that basically immasculates the car's hybrid power). Even if it's a "new" one, I'm assuming it does the same thing?
I saw two posts here recently from people who got notified earlier than me, and I'm wondering... did you take it in? Did you see any difference? I don't want to waste my time unless there will be an improvement. Like so many people here, I had all the updates done (was there 3 or 4?) half a year ago, or whenever it was. Is there any benefit for me going in this time? (Or will they turn it down even MORE than it is after the final update from a few months ago?)
I can tell you this. I won't be buying Honda again. Every car company has their trials, but even with all the stuff Toyota is going through, at least their owners still have, fundamentally, the cars that they bought. It's clear Honda will do nothing to redress this issue the proper and honorable way. I'm not trading in my Civic, I'll keep it a couple more years. But they've lost a customer for life. NO one at Honda, giving their doublespeak excuses, would themselves personally patronize a company again that did this to them. As I said before, if head of Honda Customer Service were to buy a 60" LED TV where the speakers blew after a week, and the TV company's "fix" was to limit the volume control to a max of 3 (instead of 10) and say "it's perfectly normal", do you think that Honda Cust Service Rep would buy a TV from a company like that, like what Honda's done? I'm not ever going to forget this.
At any rate, I was posting here mostly to notify you all of the new, across-the-board mandate to get ALL HCH owners in to have their hybrids stripped down.
But I'm very interested in those who already had the software "updates" -- are you going to go in to get the latest one? Is it any different than the final one from a few months ago? What was the outcome? As my car is now, I want to say "it can't get any worse", but then hey, there's nothing to stop Honda from even completely turning off the hybrid system if they want, claiming (rightly so) that doing so would, hey, save the battery from failing even more! And you know what? If you remove the entire engine and drivetrain, THAT'D help conserve the battery even more too...
#368 of 1535 Re: Honda forcing new "updates" on everyone now [mrlar]
Jul 31, 2010 (1:37 am)
I was one of Honda's early "updates." They have a prayer in H3ll of getting me back for them to complete the job. I intend to buy a new car within a year or two. i will keep my Civic parked in the sun for three months to kill the battery. Then I will force them to replace the battery before I drive it off a cliff. Screw Honda. To all of you newbies. Don't bring your car in for the update. Don't go near the dealership. And when you need battery repair, tell them not to update the computer. PUT IT IN WRITING! They are trained to lie and cheat.
#369 of 1535 Re: Honda forcing new "updates" on everyone now [mrlar]
Jul 31, 2010 (8:26 am)
You have said it so well, it describes exactly what I have gone through, yes, got my recorded message yesterday, called the dealership and they could not explain to me exactly what the "new" software update would do or how it would affect my 06 civic hybrids performance. So hoping to get some feedback as to who has had the new software update installed, I have finally gotten used to when my car has no power, and it did improve slightly over last summer, but we have had a very mild summer here in Northern Ca. I believe my IMA is already faulty, why wouldn't I want it to fail completely so that a new one would be installed????
#371 of 1535 Re: Honda Rage [MB_in_MN]
Jul 31, 2010 (12:08 pm)
MB_in_MN, are you a Honda spy?
From your post, I wonder if you have a connection with Honda, either directly by employment or through relations, friends, and so on. You certainly have a right to express your opinion, but frankly your post sounds very similar to the evasions and soothing words we're hearing from Honda's dealers and Honda corporate.
I'm sure that they'd like nothing better than for your attitude ("calm down and put this in perspective; it's a small issue; you just dont' understand/drive correctly, etc.") to be widely accepted, so they can avoid what may be a very extensive problem, caused by inadequate design.
Your suggestion that "Honda has a problem with a number of drivers" soiunds very much like "blaming the victim," and you further (without data to back it up) suggest that this problem is limited to a few hundred drivers among hundreds of thousands. That is irrelevant, by the way, but is also a very ineffective way to get redress of grievances.
I suggest that you stop whistling in the dark, playing the Pollyanna role, and otherwise ignoring or refusing to recognize this problem, and respect the experiences and reports of others on this list.
If you're an owner of an HCH, and have had no problems with it, I totally congratulate you and hope nothing but the best for you. But I suggest that in that case, you have no standing to give soothing advice to those of us who invested considerable sums of money, and may now be facing the possibility of owning cars that cannot be resold and that will be much more expensive to operate than we were led to believe at the time of purchase.
For the record, my '07 has 27,000 miles on it, has been gently driven and well-maintained, and appears to have had a meltdown with respect to the IMA system. You can certainly report on your (lack of) experience with complete knowledge. But please don't advise me and others what to do when our personal experiences are radically different than yours, and when we perceive a very significant and growing problem that needs the direct, candid, and responsive attention from Honda USA.
The fact that such candor and directness hasn't been forthcoming from Honda is very worrisome and troubling to those of us with the problem, and has for the first time placed me (a very long and very loyal Honda fan) in the position of questioning the good will and intentions of this company to do the right thing.
#372 of 1535 Re: Honda Rage [MB_in_MN]
Jul 31, 2010 (1:38 pm)
Wrong. We are not a few malcontents. This is a major design flaw arising out of an antiquated technology; i.e. nickel battery technology. Honda overpromised 49-51 MPG in an effort to compete with the far superior Toyota technology. When the batteries age, as they all do, the mileage suffers. Rather than admit the problem and seek a real solution for its customers, the company is stonewalling and shortcircuiting the hybrid system to "preserve" the batteries. The result is a poor performing vehicle, with much reduced mileage. They know this and are lying, yes LYING to protect their bottom line. Disguised as an upgrade, these computer patches actually reduce the functions of the hybrid system so that the batteries last through the warranty period. Then, the consumer is on his or her own. You may not work for Honda, but you ought to send them your resume. You'd fit right in.
#373 of 1535 NHTSA Complaint System
Jul 31, 2010 (2:12 pm)
I've filed a safety complaint/owner report with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, and advise all those on this list to call their toll-free number and/or go to their site and do the same. This will ensure that our experiences are all made part of the public record, and may very well spark a formal investigation by this agency. Since the agency's focus is on highway safety, it's likely that the HCH loss of power (impairing its ability to accelerate adequately, increasing the likelihood of rear-end or failure-to-merge collisions) will be important.
Find the NHTSA safety reporting form at:
#374 of 1535 Re: Honda Rage [civic_duty]
Jul 31, 2010 (3:11 pm)
For the record:
Not a spy, no association with Honda, nothing to gain either way from expressing my opinions either way. I have been a Honda owner since 1981. I am simply stating that some of you are just screaming at this point, and nothing will come of that.
For the record:
If you read my earlier posts, you will see that I did own an '09 HCH. We went through TWO battery failures, with one upgrade in between. So, yes, I do have some experience with this. Yes, our dealer's service people seemed clueless at times. I did not interpret it as malicious, so much as incompetent in dealing with this level of technology. No, we did not see a huge change in mileage after the upgrade, although it was only a month or so in cold weather before the second battery went bad. Yes, our dealer went to bat for us and got Honda to take the car back, so we were very lucky. It is clear that not every Honda dealer is as good.
So, I do agree that there is a problem, and I agree that we should file reports and complaints; get as many people as possible to document their problems carefully and get the "facts" out there (there have been some very good posts of people telling their stories). I agree that Honda appears to be dragging it's feet on this, hoping it will go away. And, yes, some people seem to have a real problem with the IMA system. But I can tell you from my years of troubleshooting complex scientific instruments, that these kinds of problem are very difficult to solve if you can't easily reproduce the problem. Some people are trying to do that on this forum, and we need to give them more room to figure out the problem.
I do not agree that screaming about "everybody is corrupt," "everybody is covering it up," and "everybody is out to get me" will get you anywhere. Take all that emotion and creative energy and figure out a way to legally and ethically get Honda's attention. Then we will all be better off.
As the teenagers would say, "chill."
#375 of 1535 Re: Honda Rage [MB_in_MN]
Jul 31, 2010 (3:43 pm)
You seem to be discomfited by affect (your basic counsel seems to be summed up in the word "chill").
I'll say again, that's precisely what Honda would like troubled owners to do.
And I'll also say, that's insulting to those who are legitimately aggrieved, and who now need to speak up loudly, persistently, and perhaps even rudely, to get relief.
It may be a lot easier for you to tell people to quiet down; your personal problem has been solved by a Honda buy-back.
Just because you're off the hook, don't tell the rest of us to shut up and be reasonable.
#376 of 1535 Re: Honda Rage [MB_in_MN]
Jul 31, 2010 (3:51 pm)
I will also say this with regard to your personal experience troubleshooting complex scientific instruments:
Those instruments couldn't talk. They couldn't personally tell you of their experiences, and it's very unlikely that you have "black box" recording devices or continuously-recorded computer records that monitored and recorded key parameters of those systems' performance.
Honda owners can talk. They can tell you what they've experienced. And while some of them may be a bit fuzzy in their recollections, and ALL will in some sense prove fallible, each corroborating report makes it less and less likely that their reports are simply random anomalies.
Statistically, I'd say that it's not a case of P<.05, or P<.01, but P<<.0.01 that these are purely random incidents.