Last post on Nov 24, 2013 at 2:06 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
#232 of 1530 Re: Civic Concerns [jeb858]
Jan 13, 2010 (9:07 am)
It sounds like my wife's 2008 HCH is doing the same thing, and the service people are basically calling her an idiot. She claims that sometimes when she needs to accelerate that the assist motor doesn't come on and the car begins to jerk. None of the tech's can duplicate the problem so they're are no help at all. Is this a recurring problem with this model? I know nothing bout hybrids but like you I don't want my wife driving a vehicle that is unsafe. Can you or someone else explain to me what the potential problem is and why Honda won't address the issue?
#233 of 1530 HCH vs. gasoline Civic
Jan 13, 2010 (11:27 am)
In my opinion, Honda should offer all HCH owners a refund of at least $5,000.00, to cover the added cost over a standard Civic, without any added benefit; or, fix the IMA so that the car gets the advertised gas mileage.
#234 of 1530 Re: HCH vs. gasoline Civic [dougklast]
Jan 13, 2010 (11:36 am)
BINGO! But, they won't. Our only hope is to keep trashing Honda-- they deserve it. When they see their bottom line affected, then maybe they'll do the right thing. For some reason, American Honda thinks that they are better off screwing their existing customer base in order to save the cost of valid repairs. That's why they have all those computer "patches" which do nothing more than disable the hybrid system.
#235 of 1530 Impact of the Front Battery on the IMA System
Jan 13, 2010 (9:51 pm)
Thanks to all who have posted here. Reading this has been quite educational. I have been a loyal owner of several Hondas, but I'm concerned that my/the HCH has a serious problem
I took delivery of my 2006 HCH in January 2006 in Kansas City. We have four seasons here, but typical temperature does not fall below 0 or exceed 100 often. Put 80K miles on the car in 38 months, and I was pretty happy with it. Mileage dropped in cold weather, but still got 35-37 MPG, somewhat better in moderate temperature weather (50s to 70s).
Just before 80K miles (slightly over three years), I took it into the dealer with a battery problem. They told me it was the front battery, claiming it had been discharged due to leaving an internal light on. I raised the question of whether there was a problem with the IMA system, and was told there wasn't. (After reading these posts, I've come to doubt that claim, but at least I got it in before the 80K warranty expired.) A good battery charge and clearing the code got me back on the road.
My son took it to college, where he didn't drive it much. This winter, during a cold snap, the front battery went bad. That caused the IMA system not to work properly. As others have described, severe loss of power, lack of recharging, etc.
My usual sources for batteries for my other cars--Wal-Mart, Sears, NTB--wouldn't touch the front battery. The only explanation I got was that they feared replacing the front battery would cause computer problems, so I had to take it to the dealer.
The dealer replaced the front battery for $105. It also applied some software "updates" to fix the problems allegedly caused by the front battery going bad, and cleared all of the codes that were recorded on the computer. They didn't charge for these other services, perhaps because I told them about all these postings I was reading and wondered aloud if Honda has a serious battery problem it's not disclosing. The service rep. said that the new battery was a 100 month Honda battery more powerful than the 36 month Honda battery that had gone bad at 48 months.
Son took the car back to college last week, but got only 30-31 mpg post-software updates. So I'm concerned that the main function of the upgrades was to reduce the strain on the electric portion of the drive system. Consistent with what others report, now it seems to be an underpowered Civic (due to those heavy batteries under the back seat) that cost $4k more than a Civic EX and $5K more than an LX Yet a few minutes ago I heard a Honda commercial extolling the great mileage of a new Civic Hybrid.
I suspect the speculation on these postings is correct. In taking discovery against some companies, you find internal e-mails or memos recognizing problems and trying to figure out how to cover them up and/or avoid dealing with the problem. If there is internal recognition of the problem, then you look to see what the company has told dealers to tell customers, and what advertising it uses for the product.
Chances are the problems aren't disclosed, because if they were sales would drop and probably not recover. Unsuspecting folks who buy the product not knowing of the problem are likely to be upset when they encounter the problem, and may feel mislead.
Typically I keep my cars until they wear out, but now I'm concerned I should trade the car in. (Better to sell it back to the dealer than to defraud some unsuspecting member of the public who just wants reliable transportation.) I wonder what the trade-in or resale value of the car is, with these problems surfacing. Has anyone tried a trade-in and gotten burned?
Specifically, what is the trade in value of a HCH as compared to a Civic LX with comparable mileage? One might suspect it's lower, since the dealer probably knows about these problems and might have trouble reselling it. So not only did I pay $5K more than an LX, the resale value might be lower too. That's why you read people's questions about class actions.
Lesson: Don't let the front battery die completely. Get it changed before it discharges completely, and maybe you won't need the software upgrades. Keep the car in a heated garage if you can to avoid the strain on the battery.
And present your story here so that we can document whether Honda will step up to the plate for its loyal customers. Good luck.
#236 of 1530 Re: Impact of the Front Battery on the IMA System [mo_honda_owner]
Jan 14, 2010 (5:28 am)
You raise an interesting question. Will disconnecting the front battery erase the codes that the dealershiips have been installing to limit the hybrid system's capabilities? Does anyone know?
#237 of 1530 Re: Impact of the Front Battery on the IMA System [shonda3]
Jan 14, 2010 (8:32 am)
Vehicle software updates and patches are a one way street.
Codes can somtime be erased by disconnecting the battery but using a scan tool is much more effective. Any time codes are erased the OBDII monitors will be reset and the vehicle might drive a little different for a short time.
All these "updates" do not address the fact that our vehicles are not meeting the expectations of the hybrid vehicle that we were so excited about when we first purchased our cars.
#238 of 1530 Re: Impact of the Front Battery on the IMA System [shonda3]
Jan 15, 2010 (9:44 pm)
No, they are installing new versions of the software.
#239 of 1530 IMA problems, and check engine light
Jan 15, 2010 (10:47 pm)
My IMA failed at aprox. 100k miles when the IMA light came on, which caused the check engine light to come on also. I've been driving the car with a subsequent reduced mileage, but otherwise no serious problem. Trouble is, with the check engine light on, the car won't pass emmissions inspection in PA. I can't see replacing the IMA battery at the unrealistically high price Honda wants, but don't know what to do about emmissions inspection. I can reset the check engine light with a diagnostic computer, but the IMA light, and the check engine light both come on again as soon as the IMA tries to supply power to the IMA motor. As long as the IMA is generating, both lights stay off.
Any ideas about what I might do? Don't care if the IMA works, just want to drive the car and pass inspection.
#240 of 1530 2003 HCH IMA & front battery issues
Jan 16, 2010 (9:23 am)
I really appreciate the help some of you guys have been on the forum. I own a 2003 HCH with just under 104,000 on it. We had a new transmission put in at 96,000 on our honeymoon. For the last 6 months, we've had the check engine light on for the catalytic converter and the IMA light going on for a couple weeks and off for a week randomly. The Honda dealer has given us the updates for the computer (which we had to tell them that there were updates). Just recently, our front battery died (which is on about the 40th month of a 100 month battery). We bought the car used so we don't get the warranty on the front battery. Now the IMA and check engine lights are off. I suspect they will come back on within a week.
My questions were:
1. How much does the IMA battery deterioration effect the front battery?
2. We have looked at the hybrid battery repair online out of NY. Has anyone got their battery rebuilt from a refurbishing company? Is it worth the cost?
3. While obviously replacing the front battery, would it be wiser to repair the IMA first or the cataytic converter if only one was an option because of cost?
4. How much damage would it be to wait until the IMA deteriorates to get it refurbished rather than now?
#241 of 1530 Re: 2003 HCH IMA & front battery issues [a_weaver12]
Jan 16, 2010 (11:26 am)
You obviously make your own decision about what to do, but I can give you some facts to help you decide.
1. In perfect condition, the resale value of your 2003 HCH is about $6000, at best.
2. Replacing the IMA battery will cost $3000, with a new battery, with an 80k miles warranty
3. Depending on the catalytic converter, it can cost $1500(front converter) or $1000(rear converter). The good one will go bad shortly after the other, so you must eventually replace both.
4. The O2 sensors will go shortly after the converters($1000 repair).
5. The front 12 volt battery is not affected by the IMA, except that the IMA charges the front 12v battery, but will not damage it. Replacing the 12v battery is the same as in any other vehicle, and can be done yourself for the cost of a battery. The IMA disables charging of the 12v battery at engine rpms over 4000, and heavy engine load, so running for very long times under these conditions(over 75mph) will eventually cause the 12v battery to totally discharge. The red battery symbol on the dash tells when the 12v battery isn't charging.
6. The software 'updates' will eventually cause your mileage to approach that of a normal, non-hybrid Civic, because they are designed to put less strain on the IMA battery.
I have discovered all of this by first hand experience, the dealer will try to get you to pay to do all of the repairs. I am running my HCH without the IMA, which is almost the same as with the IMA with the software 'updates'. The only problem I have is that the check engine light is on, and the car will not pass emmissions inspection that way in my state. I am working on a way to fool the IMA system into thinking the IMA battery is OK, and not turn on the IMA light, or the check engine light.