Last post on Nov 24, 2013 at 2:06 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
#1234 of 1530 Re: 2005 hch IMA batteries [ativar]
Dec 03, 2011 (4:57 am)
2003-2005 Civics are a different car than 2006-2009 Civics. The "update" that the 2006-2009 owners are having trouble with is not the same as the maintenance update they put in your car. The latest update for the 2003-2005 Civics concentrates on keeping the battery half full. Gas mileage is affected slightly if you tend to drive fast or lots of local driving or lots of acceleration (if your battery isn't normally more than half full). This is just simply due to it applying more regen than it used to. Gentle highway driving should be unchanged, and the total mpg drop shouldn't be more than a few mpg.
Typically, a CVT owner should see a drop from 60 combined to about 55 combined with a low of 45 local. This update is a general battery longevity change that was also introduced into the 2000-2006 Insight.
The software update for 2006-2009 Civics is essentially the 2010-2011 software applied to the earlier cars. It significantly affects the way the car performs whenever the battery is low, and this in turn severely affects the mpg of some drivers, while affecting others not at all. It all depends on how the car is driven.
Now as to why your battery failed: it has become apparent over the last few years that Honda's battery system is extremely sensitive to be left sitting - undriven. The short version is that every time you leave the car parked for a few days it does a little bit of damage to the battery and this damage in cumulative. The time it sat in your driveway should not have been enough to cause the issue, but your car probably had a severely imbalanced cell (of the 120) and when you restarted the car, it was so far out of balance that a P1568 error was thrown. Your dealer doesn't have a clue about the IMA system, so they'd have no way of knowing why it failed.
Do you know your new error codes?
BTW, your warranty is 84,000 miles, not 80,000.
#1235 of 1530 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [inmyhumbleop]
Dec 03, 2011 (5:07 am)
The dealer was telling the truth about one thing: low rolling resistance tires do make a large difference in mpg. LRR tires typically account for a 5 mpg difference on Civics and tire pressure another 3 mpg. It is safe on all tires to inflate them as high as the "max pressure" number on the side of the tire. Typically that is 44 psi (some are 34). The burst pressure is over 200 psi.
Car manufacturers specify lower pressure because is make a softer ride and that sells cars.
Higher pressure in the tires will increase mpg and possibly your traction, but will make a harsher ride. However, you can try it, and if you don't like it, just let some out until you find an acceptable pressure.
#1236 of 1530 Re: 2004 Hybrid and bad software update causes IMA failure. [tblackley]
Dec 03, 2011 (5:16 am)
P1433 is a warning (not failure) that the IMA battery is degraded and below 10% of its original capacity - it's worn out. The symptoms are a normal-acting battery that is very quickly depleted and recharged (because it doesn't hold much charge). The dealer should have replaced it. Resetting the system will make the car forget about it and force it to re-evaluate the battery which can take some time. Unfortunately, a battery that is that weak is susceptible to becoming unbalanced, so typically a P1433 is followed by a total IMA failure about 2 months later.
The O2 sensor update that you had done is a software update to the ECU (by the passenger's feet). IMA updates reprogram the MCM (behind the back seat). There was no reason for the dealer to update the MCM, so he probably didn't.
#1237 of 1530 Re: Battery Warranty [centerfield007]
Dec 03, 2011 (5:18 am)
The warranty is on the car, not the owner.
P0A7F is a "replace the battery" code equivalent to a P1433 error. Get it done (free) ASAP.
#1238 of 1530 Re: P1600 and P1449 Codes [sak6]
Dec 03, 2011 (5:27 am)
P1435 and P1570 are problems with the IMA computer or wiring and are not related to the battery. P1449 is a battery failure. P1600 and P1601 just mean the IMA light has been turned on.
You need to repair or replace your battery soon. A dealer is expensive, but there are alternatives out there. Either search on the web, or email me for more information.
#1239 of 1530 Re: THE PROPOSED SETTLEMENT OF CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS FOR HCH [nyhonda]
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
Dec 03, 2011 (6:14 am)
This is why I always chuckle when people get all worked up about a car problem and start thinking about class action suits. Honestly, I get a couple of notices in the mail every year to join in some class action or other that someone has started somewhere about a product I own. I now just toss them in the garbage. Right off the top, the settlement, when spread over the number of members "in the class" is pretty much always VERY small. (I got $1.26 as compensation for a small issue with a washing machine once, no "fix" was ever done to the machines, and that was the end of that) The only ones making money are the lawyers, and all the fuss pretty much leads to higher product prices. Face it, if you were Honda and just had to pay out a settlement to a group of people who just "won", how would YOU get that money back?
#1240 of 1530 Re: THE PROPOSED SETTLEMENT OF CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS FOR HCH [pf_flyer]
Dec 03, 2011 (9:18 am)
For less expensive products you may be right, settlement may not even be worth the effort. However, when you pay $24000. for a car and are given an update, without warning of the possible outcome, that not only doesn't improve the product but reduces performance, gas mileage and even makes it unsafe in certain driving conditions and the manufacturer refuses to fix the problem, a law suit may be your last and only resort. Look how many dissatisfied Honda customers are on this forum and there are other forums on the net expressing similar problems with Honda. This is a wide spread problem and must be addressed. I'll never buy another Honda.
#1241 of 1530 Re: THE PROPOSED SETTLEMENT OF CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS FOR HCH [grunn320]
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
Dec 04, 2011 (8:41 am)
But even with a car, look at the post I responded to. That settlement is going to be between $100 and $200. That's a handful of fill ups at the pump. The owners "won". Do they feel better?
The problem I see is that people don't look at a lawsuit as a last resort, but it seems to be the first thing they come up with. As you point out the forums are full of complaints about all brands of vehicles (sort of the nature of message boards, nobody comes on to post "My car is just fine") and while some concerns ARE issues that may need to be addressed by the manufacturers, a lot of them are just "normal" problems that come with car ownership. Over on the pickups forums, I was amazed to read about a "problem" that a user was describing as a "manufacturing defect". Seems that if he drove his pickup truck over a certain stretch of road at a certain speed, the truck would "hobby horse" and bounce up and down. I have no doubt it was happening. It's happened to me with cars and trucks. It's called uneven pavement and going just the right speed so the bumps in the road come at just the right moment as your suspension is recovering from the last bump. But of course, it HAD to be addressed by the manufacturer and it MUST be a defect, and there ought to be a recall, yada, yada.
Mileage concerns are particularly quirky. That "your mileage may vary" phrase is only too true. I've ALWAYS met or exceeded the EPA numbers on my cars. Probably a combination of my driving style and the conditions I drive in. But with the same model cars, some people don't get close to the number and think that means a problem with the car.
#1242 of 1530 Re: Battery Warranty [Ogre_GEV]
Dec 05, 2011 (10:32 am)
Thanks for your advice.I made an appointment with the dealer today.I hope I don`t run into some of the issues with the dealer that I have read about in this forum.
#1243 of 1530 Re: THE PROPOSED SETTLEMENT OF CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS FOR HCH [pf_flyer]
Dec 05, 2011 (10:58 am)
My complaint is based on car performance and safety prior to the update vs after the update, not a change in my driving habits. Loved the car before, not so much since. Irregardless of settlement amount consumer receives, the point is Honda could pay millions to settle. Lawsuit settlements may be the only weapon consumers have to keep giant corporations like Honda from becoming even more insensitive to customer complaints in the future. This is my last post on the subject.