Last post on Apr 02, 2013 at 6:27 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
#1216 of 1484 Another Unhappy HCH Owner
Nov 21, 2011 (3:36 pm)
I'm also having troubles with my 2009 Civic Hybrid especially after the "update". Bought the car new ~7/2009 (37 miles) and had nothing but great things to say until receiving a software update in February 2011. I saw solid MPG all over the local Tucson area averaging 47-52 all year, on long drives to Phoenix (about 100 miles of flat 75 mph interstate) I saw 55-60 MPG consistently even on days in the 100's with a full car. Nice quiet ride too once up to speed ~75 or so the CVT smoothly moved the gear ratio to a great spot resulting in RPM that would rest ~1800-2000 just like any good car in overdrive.
After getting this update, identical trips and even trips with just me driving to Phoenix, completely different story. City driving is about the same if only slightly lower at 42 - 47MPG. At speeds past 60 however, very poor MPG. Now on rides to Phoenix the car burns much more gas and feels like a 4 speed.
For example: at 75 MPH the car now remains at 2800-3300 RPM to maintain speed, its almost as if someone took away the overdrive. The trip is louder too. Then the Gas milage drops to 30-38 (from 55-60). I used to be able to drive to and from Phoenix with more than half a tank close to 3/4, now I come back with 1/4 of a tank.
Not only that, since I'm already at 3k RPM if I need to pass the engine goes to Red Line! It never did that before the update and can be quite scary. Speed limits in TX go up to 85 running at over 4000+ RPM just to maintain speed on a flat road. Near the Grand Canyon on a road with a 65 speed limit and slight incline the car stayed near 6000 RPM for about 15 miles which resulted in a reading of 17 MPG (wish I took a picture) for a ~50 mile odometer trip reset. Going uphill in this car now a challenge where the car red lines all the time and at times it just will not go any faster. Did not have these troubles in previous trips on these same roads.
Honda dealer can't undo the update and Honda customer service stated they cannot do anything to help me and 2 complaints fell on deaf ears. This is my 2nd Honda and with incompetence like this coming from them possibly my last. Apparently correcting a CVT gear ratio is rocket science.
Has anyone else noticed this significant change in how the CVT operates at freeway speeds on the Civic Hybrid? Or know of a solution to this problem?
#1217 of 1484 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [jjsparks]
Nov 21, 2011 (3:51 pm)
I think that more than an occasional recal is unacceptable, but several times a day is absolutely unacceptable. When I finally have time to take it back to my dealer (who I think has actually been quite sympathetic and would truly like to resolve the issue) I will stress the hazardous aspect of needing to accelerate when the IMA does a recal. I have been in several situations where I've been pulling into traffic right as the recal starts and the engine will hesitate a second before the gas engine engages. It can be really scary.
As to the extended warranty, they had darn well better cover it or I will go ballistic. My dealer has alluded to it a couple of times, as in "well, you've still got X number of miles before your extended warranty expires," so I'm expecting it to be covered.
#1218 of 1484 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [brian2007]
Nov 21, 2011 (8:21 pm)
2007 HCH Owner: What Honda is doing with this battery issue is criminal. I mean literally criminal - it is fraud. I'm not a lawyer, but really, what else can you call it. I get recals constantly. There used to be an AutoStop light I saw all the time. A few months ago, I saw it and thought for a second "what's that"? Then I remembered besides by mileage going to hell and the car's responsiveness and ride changing for the worse, before the upgrade the AutoStop light came on maybe 90% of the time I was stopped. Now maybe it's 2%.
My Honda service manager is a d*k. When I went in to complain in person, he told me "Honda pays the bills". Huh,,,, maybe your bills but not mine. I am part of paying HONDA's bills by buying their cars (this is my third Honda) and having them serviced at Honda.
This is what I have done lately (I've tried to forget the fact I've been robbed but every time I get in my car it makes me remember!) When I called SVC Mgr. months later, he said "It was because I didn't have low-resistant tires". They make 1 to 2.5 mpg difference, possibly 3. Whenever I mentioned the performance of the BATTERY, he completed ignored my question and would sound irritated.
So I decided to do something. Not saying it will help me but you never know and it makes me feel I'm doing "something". And if "we" owners are pissed off enough to convince Honda we're not dummies or woossies, and we're not going to just "go away" and trade our piece of junk in for something that works so that an unsuspecting new person gets our car used...maybe they'll do the right thing to replace our compromised batteries.
Here's what I started to do:
I printed out the MPG advertised stats for Honda Civic 2007 (real easy to find on Google). The HCH is listed at 42 average. I took a screen shot from Trip B, with 2000 miles on it, that shows 30.3. In between I put a sign that says Lemon, see "Honor Corporation Has No Honor" on FB. It's taped on the rear driver's window of my car.
Next, I started taping the recals and pathetic performance of the battery on my iPhone. It easily fits on the ledge to video this and I don't have to touch it at all when driving. I get recals every 10 minutes or so, whether in city driving or on the freeway.
Next plan: (I have family issues, unemployment, disabled/troubled child).. WHEN I feel I can deal with the time, annoyance (how do I transfer the video to my Mac? got to find this out, etc.) and stress it causes me to even have to be doing this, I will write a letter with DVDs to my nice, sweet service manager thanking him profusely for the info on low resistance tires but how does this affect the performance of the battery. I will also copy in the Southern California address, and Honda America.
BTW I did call Honda America maybe a year ago? They told me the battery was "working as designed". That's their motto. I will ask them to reconfirm this in light of the evidence I have now provided them.
Sorry to be so upset, while misery loves company, in this case it makes me more miserable knowing how many (as in ALL) HCH owners have this issue and Honda is just like "driving habits", "bad tires" and whatever other shit they can put out there that might stick.
Thank you I feel better.
I know we're not supposed to give each other's e-mail addresses. But if you Like Honda Corporation Has no Honor on FB (not my site - something I found googling this stuff) maybe we can exchange e-mails or privately FB each other in messages so that all this isn't there for the whole world to see.
Just a thought.
Again, thanks for letting me vent! And good luck to the above owners - for a 2009 owner to have to go thru this is terrible. Honda for SURE KNEW THE PROBLEM by the 2009 model.
#1219 of 1484 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner
Nov 22, 2011 (7:08 am)
Thanks to all of you who have posted information on the IMA battery problems. I started experiencing similar issues with my 2009 Civic Hybrid about a month ago and the Honda Dealership Mechanic was useless...took the car in twice and the second time they said "Oh well, you'll probably need to keep driving it. Sometimes things have to get worse to get better". I did some research online, found your postings and used the information to talk with Honda of America about my experience and I just got a call from the Honda Dealership that they'll be replacing my battery...no questions asked, completely covered by my warranty as I only have 22,676 miles on the car. I'm looking forward to having my car back to running order but thinking about ditching it for a Toyota. The latest edition of consumer reports gives its lowest rating to the 2009 Civic Hybrid's electrical system and I'm thinking I'll probably have to sell the car for way less than I would normally expect for resale on a Honda. Oh well...
#1220 of 1484 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [bryan772]
Nov 22, 2011 (7:15 am)
I'm wondering if there were mistakes made in implementing the software update. Maybe you could get them to do a re-install or at least verify the update is working correctly. Software controls the CVT ratios. I had the update and a new battery installed on my 2006. It performs as well as ever. My rpm is about 2000 70mph on a flat road. I have noticed that I get my best mileage by keeping the engine speed below 2000 rpm as much as possible.
#1221 of 1484 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [bossless]
Nov 22, 2011 (9:41 am)
bossless, I think the key to the good performance you get is the "new battery". That's the only thing that will return our cars to good, "hybrid"-like, working order. How did you get a new battery? Who did you send a letter to? (
Sorry if it's already posted somewhere above this huge thread)
#1222 of 1484 The Hybrid Transmission
Nov 22, 2011 (9:54 am)
I have put one transmission in that was covered by warranty and now after another 100000 miles I need another one. Plus all My engine mounts are bad. Makes the little 1400 rock and roll
#1223 of 1484 Re: Another Unhappy HCH Owner [bossless]
Nov 22, 2011 (10:12 am)
I think I'll try bringing the car to the other Honda dealer in town and have them try to apply the update. The one I'm currently going do tried re-loading it with no change, perhaps the copy of the firmware that they are using is bad. Worth a try, I'll see how it goes.
#1224 of 1484 2005 hch IMA batteries
Nov 22, 2011 (2:24 pm)
Bought the 2005 new in Oct '04. On a trip in '05 and was rearended in OKC stopped at a stop light. While car was drivable, it needed to have extensive rearend repair. Once back home, after completing our trip, the car sat in the driveway for three days before it could be accepted into the Honda body shop. During that time, the IMA battery failed. Honda replaced it, but could not determine what caused the failure. It is now Nov '11, and on the 1st I had a check engine lite come on; took it into the dealer, and they said it was a sofware update that needed to be implemented. Did that, and now, Nov 22 the check engine lite, as well as the IMA battery lite or on, and the Honda dealer says we need ANOTHER new battery. Car has 72k+ on it, and is now on the 3d IMA battery. It never gave us the MPG that was adv't, but at 37 city 41 hwy I wasn't going to complain real loud - it was better than anything else I've had in a while. I've owned Honda's since the '67 model, and tend to replace them about every 6-8 years, and this is the first one I've had that has had to go back for a single item! Also own an '11 Insight which is working just fine!
#1225 of 1484 2004 Hybrid and bad software update causes IMA failure.
Nov 28, 2011 (5:38 pm)
OK, here is some information about getting a software upgrade on your 2004 civic hybrid. We got the O2 sensor update then 3 days later the IMA and CEL light came on. I checked the codes (1600 1433) and reset it. Every thing was fine again (no recalls, etc). Then 2 weeks later the complete IMA system went off line with the IMA and CEL lights on with the only code of 1600.
Went to the dealer and found out the O2sensor update was a 2 phase update with only the first part applied. The dealer told admitted to the mistake and re-applied both updates. The car (so far) is now back to normal.