Last post on Dec 06, 2013 at 12:14 PM
You are in the Honda Civic Hybrid
What is this discussion about?
Honda Civic, Hybrid Cars, Coupe, Sedan
#121 of 1532 Re: Honda Civic IMA problems [Ogre_GEV]
Sep 17, 2009 (9:44 am)
"If you are near 80,000 miles, then please let me know and I'll give you tips on how to preserve your warranty rights, but otherwise, just sit back and wait for it to fail. When the recals get to several a day, you are usually very close to a P1433 or P1447 error."
Our 2003 HCH is just past 80,000 miles (near 84K) and the IMA light is now on. Honda dealer says it is the IMA module, not the battery pack, and wants around 2K for replacement. But he is checking to see if being so close to warrantee will let them cover the repair. That attitude is encouraging, so maybe Honda America is finally getting the message. I will let you know what the dealer decides.
#122 of 1532 Re: Honda Civic IMA problems [rchertzy]
Sep 17, 2009 (10:11 am)
Is your vehicle one of the vehicles covered by the "Honda odometer over-reading by 7% issue"? If so you may actually be covered up to an indicated 85,600 miles.
#123 of 1532 2003 HCH doing just fine
Sep 18, 2009 (3:06 pm)
After reading a lot of posts about the HCH I would like to report that my 2003 has never had a problem. I have put 115,000 miles on the car. The IMA indicator has never come on and the "check engine light" only comes on when scheduled service is required.
From what I have read here I am a very lucky man.
#124 of 1532 Battery Problems
Sep 18, 2009 (10:08 pm)
Oh my gosh, I just found this forum, and glad to know it's not just me.
No more Hondas for me. Not after this. I'm going back to Toyotas next time. Two instances of Honda Corporate trying to screw their customers recently for me is enough. I'm sure they don't care, but they've lost me, and I'll be buying cars for a long time. First was the rear control arm which cost me 4 new tires and Honda wouldn't pay anything towards them (no notification, no recall -- and almost spent $800 on struts as at first that's what was thought was the problem).
Before I explain my situation, one question. They did a software update again which I can plainly see has tried to extend the battery by not allowing the hybrid to kick in now except when you really put the pedal down. CAN I GO BACK TO THE DEALER AND ASK THEM TO REINSTALL THE OLD software version so I have full use of my hybrid again? To me this is NOT a fix, it's them cheating their customers in even another way. If there's a problem with something it should be FIXED NOT DISABLED. If you buy a TV and the sound started buzzing, what would you think of a company's service department cutting the power cord and saying "there, now there's no more buzzing." I paid for, and expect a hybrid system that works. What I'm afraid I've got now is a barely-working hybrid because Honda doesn't want to live up to its obligations (and by disabling much of the hybrid's use, it may indeed extend the defective batteries past the expiration date, screwing me two ways). Has anyone asked Honda to revert their HCH back to what SHOULD be a "normal" software package? This is what I want to do... and I'm sure they're not going to want to.
Now since I'm new here, let me explain what's happened with my car (2006 HCH, 42k, live in California):
My batteries have been crashing for a few months now. I let it go for a while because it was merely annoying. But the other day it crashed and almost caused an accident, so I decided to take it in (crahsed while going uphill on a freeway right as the freeway onramp dumps you onto the FAST lane of traffic. Yes, this is a strange onramp, but of all places for it to crash, it crashed here). Cars behind me were slamming on their brakes honking because the car had to do a forced major regen -- and even with the pedal shoved down I could hardly get up the hill -- with the AC off.
* Car has had battery crashes for about the last 8-9 months like this, occasionally (once or twice a month). Has gotten more frequent lately. (4-6 times a month). Each time I'd take it in, the dealer would say "well, we don't SEE it now. Bring it in when we can see it" -- a brushoff because as you all know it's close to impossible because as soon as it crashes it forces a regen. Well it happened a few weeks ago right next to the dealer. Took it in, showed them, they verified the problem, called the Honda Tech line, and was told "since there's no error code, there' s no fix." Their "fix" was to take away most of the hybrid's power to prevent it from use (something I am STEAMED about). A few days later after software "update", crashed again. Took cel phone photos while driving. Spent today on the phone with a Honda rep (the "higest" person I can supposedly talk to, as those above him refuse to talk to customers) who sounded like he was reading from a script ("I feel your pain." But without an error code we're not going to fix anything. Doesn't matter how unsafe it is. End of story). I just filled out an NHTSA form on the problem, and suggest ALL THOSE WITH THIS PROBLEM do the same.
Since the software update obviously didn't even make the problem less frequent (it's happening more frequent) I want the software reset back to what it should be for a normal condition battery. Then maybe the battery can get replaced and I'll have what I paid for and thought I bought.
Thoughts, anyone? Should I go to another dealer to ask them to reset the software? Or will they refuse to do so? Have others? I don't like being screwed with a failing battery they don't want to replace -- and don't like being double-screwed by them crippling the hybrid system as well (especially since it has not solved the problem).
#125 of 1532 Re: Duplicate IMA Malfunction On Demand? [rosie2006]
Sep 18, 2009 (10:27 pm)
>>(there are 3 associated with 1 update number).
Does anyone know the actual Update # or code or listing, and what the "normal" version should be? Again, I want to take my car into a dealer and have them "reset" it so that I can actually use the hybrid instead of having it come on only when you floor the accelerator. If it causes their defective batteries to wear down faster, too bad for them. I paid for a hybrid. As someone else said, they're simply trying to run out the clock, and it's unconscionable.
So for those of you out there that have been asking for details and keeping details, can you please post the software "update" codes, and any information that might help me explain to another dealer that I want the car reset to how it should be? Again, the car is still crashing so it's not going to make it any more unsafe to have it reset so I can actually have a somewhat working hybrid system again...
(I'm talking about the IMA "updates" for problems with the battery crashing, that limit when the hybrid kicks in, and how much it'll kick in).
#126 of 1532 Re: Battery Problems [mrlar]
Sep 19, 2009 (5:37 am)
CAN I GO BACK TO THE DEALER AND ASK THEM TO REINSTALL THE OLD software version so I have full use of my hybrid again?
Let me preface my remark with the fact that I'm not a Honda tech.
It's possible that the dealer may not be able to restore your software to the way it was even if they wanted to. It may be that only the latest version (the one you have currently) is the only version that is available to them.
#127 of 1532 Re: Duplicate IMA Malfunction On Demand? [mrlar]
Sep 19, 2009 (6:31 am)
I doubt they'll have the old code to put back. You could get an MCM out of a junkyard and put it in, or contact me as I have one here. (It's easy to install.)
The updates that Honda has made to the MCM software have not been disclosed to anyone or even when they came out. It's easier with the Insights, as the 2000-2001 have to have the modules replaced (not flashable) and they have part numbers that identify the version.
The latest updates for the Insight (and presumably the HCH) came out in 2007 and cause the car to attempt to maintain a half-full battery. The car will be more liberal with assist when the gauge is above half and more agressive with regen when below half. This messes with fuel economy and many drivers don't like it.
BTW, you might want to refer to it as "recal-ing" instead of "crashing".
Sep 19, 2009 (8:32 am)
>>You could get an MCM out of a junkyard and put it in, or contact me as I have one here. (It's easy to install.)
What is the MCM? Is it just a chip, is it a motor, is it large?
How expensive would one be? Is it heavy?
And could a non-Honda mechanic replace it?
(And do you have one for a 2006 HCH?)
Also, I live in California... with Calif's different emissions and such, would the MCM be different for California cars?
Actually the way the car is now, it's NOT more liberal with assist even when full. Before the latest update (less than a month ago) it would indeed be liberal with normal driving, but now the white assist bars will stop at 3 tiny bars unless you really press the accelerator. It will never go to 4 bars as it used to. Also, you can no longer go to electric only coast mode while driving fast on the freeway, even when going straight as you used to easily be able to. I've only been able to get it to happen once, only when going street speed. And again, even when that happened, as I slowly tried to increase it past the 3 bars, the gas immediately came on afterwards. Basically I used to never take the car above "2" on the rpm dial, but now the hybrid won't even kick in until after 2 (between 2 and 3) and will only give 3 small white bars unless you really hit the gas (in which case it'll give 4+ -- but only when really hitting on the gas).
I'm serious about doing this because I hate the car the way it is now, but I don't really want to put an Insight part (or version 1 hybrid part) into the 2006 HCH...
#129 of 1532 Re: Duplicate IMA Malfunction On Demand? [mrlar]
Sep 19, 2009 (2:34 pm)
The Service Bulletin number is 09-058, there are 3 software updates associated with the one SB number is how I understand it, Elk Grove Ca did only a partial and it ran like severe crap, then Lodi Ca did the additional one and it improved but still assists/charges/performance like crap. And no, have already asked if they can return it the original settings, they said no. Just received a follow up letter from Honda Rep, and responded with :
American Honda Motor Co., INC
1919 Torrance Blvd.
Torrance, CA 90501-2746
File Number N012009-08-1701419
Dear Mr. Chandler,
I would like to thank you for your time concerning my 2006 Honda Civic Hybrid. I too am grateful that the mileage issue has been resolved, as I mentioned during our conversations, I was under the impression that the tires had been replaced with OE tires.
Please correct me if I am wrong concerning our last meeting, I agreed that the 2009 Civic Hybrid that I test drove performed as my 2006 has been performing since the software updates. I do not consider the software updates that were downloaded to my vehicle as “programming enhancements” as they have reduced the original performance of my vehicle; I consider the change in performance a severe safety issue and my vehicle is not performing as it was prior to the software updates.
I also informed you that I would never have bought a vehicle that performed as the 2009 Honda Civic Hybrid did, nor as my 2006 is performing now.
I believe you agreed that the Civic Hybrids were experiencing IMA assist battery issues related to outside temperatures (heat issues) and that the software updates were designed to reduce or eliminate having to replace the IMA batteries.
Having said that, I would hope that the engineering department of American Honda Motor Co is addressing the issue and not merely putting a band aid on it. Having been exceptionally happy with my Honda Civic Hybrid since purchasing it in 2006, I am extremely unhappy, frustrated and detest driving it now.
#130 of 1532 Re: Battery Problems [mrlar]
Sep 19, 2009 (2:44 pm)
By the way, I was screwed out of 2 sets of tires, had a blow out in10/ 07, was never informed that the tires were wearing bad, replaced with same OE tires from Honda, then again in 06/09, same thing, after inquiring why the same problem and no one saying anything at regular rotations, tech came out and said, humm think you need your rear control arms replaced... only 100 cause I still have the honda care warranty.. the service bulletin came out about 6 months after the 07 new tires! No discount, no nothing!