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Hyundai Equus, Hyundai Genesis, Car Comparisons
#6922 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [captain2]
Aug 26, 2010 (5:32 am)
You are living in the past again. Hyundais HAD poor resale values. But this is 2010, and that has changed. Check out resale values of the latest generation Hyundais and you'll see they are very competitive, even close to class-leading in some cases (e.g. Genesis and Sonata). And the huge discounts relative to others is also a thing of the past. (Priced a 2011 Sonata recently?)
If you want a "good discount" on a car, everyone knows you do NOT buy one right when the model or latest design is introduced. Then it's a "gotta be first one on my block" syndrome. Those who waited a couple of years can now get a good discount on the two-year-old Genesis--especially given current economic realities. But then, big discounts are easy to get on almost anything in the luxury marketplace. Or we can do as Mr. Fintail likes to do, wait about 3 years and pick up a slightly used luxury car for a small fraction of its original list.
#6923 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [fintail]
Aug 26, 2010 (5:40 am)
Hard to fathom why someone cares what I think about a distant dealership group.
Yes, it is. Harder still to fathom why someone would ask someone else to name one dealer selling a certain vehicle below a certain price, with no direction that the dealer be close to the person's (unstated) location, and given that the requester has no intent to buy said car now or in the forseeable future.
You own a used MB. I've owned a used BMW. I own two Hyundais. You've owned none. So what? Anyone interested in this topic is welcome to post here, right, Hosts?
Are you telling us new MBs and BMWs are not discounted in any way?
I could buy a new Genesis 3.8 for the price of a used C Class or 3 Series. And my backseat passengers would welcome the extra room.
#6924 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 26, 2010 (6:00 am)
And it's even harder to fathom why someone would complain about such requests, but still fulfill them when said requests can be easily ignored
I've also driven MB since I was 18 year old and will likely own more. Anyone interested can post indeed, I am not the one who started questioning, am I? And we all own used cars, unless we are dealers, we don't own new cars.
I don't see the latest and greatest supposed game-changers from Germany being directly offered for 10%+ lower than the MSRP stated on banner ads that appear directly on dealer websites, no.
I could buy a 3 year old and still under warranty E63 AMG for the price of a loaded Genesis. My sensory receptors would welcome the extra performance.
#6925 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 26, 2010 (12:50 pm)
Are those sales any less important to luxury automakers than those from the US?
yes, they are - the Buick LaCrosse (with a wheezy 4 banger in it of all things) is perhaps THE luxury car in China - make any diiference here? or maybe you're ready to proclaim it a 'luxury car' because the Chinese think so. How Toyota/Nissan/Hyundai or any other mass market mfgr is perceived outside these borders also is of no consequence - if Toyota wants to sell a luxury car here it will be labelled a Lexus, Nissan an Infiniti etc. - all except Hyundai, of course, which doesn't have one.
And NO NO NO it is only a 'moot point' in your own H biased mind - today's realities as you call them remain that luxury cars are sold only with luxury brands.
#6926 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 26, 2010 (1:20 pm)
And the huge discounts relative to others is also a thing of the past. (Priced a 2011 Sonata recently?)
and you want to base this claim on a history of a whole year? The Sonata (while I question the abandonment of the V6) is definitely improved, is selling better, and is also on its new model honeymoon. Talk to me about Sonata prices holding in another 6 or 8 months., we'll see. They are already buying down the finance rates, no telling when those big arss rebates will show up as well.
An interesting concept though - a Hyundai that actually sells for some number more closely related to MSRP. Honda and Toyota have only beeen doing that for the last 25 years or so. The Hyundai dealer (and salesperson) would be lost - along the lines of 'how to sell a product that isn't necessarily the cheapest around'. The earth would shake, start rotating clockwise on its axis and then that salesmen would finally figure out that it really is possible to sell something on it merits as opposed to its price.
But, throw off your 'H' colored glass for a bit, and honestly tell me that you think that average Joe autobuyer doesn't EXPECT discounts at that wonderful Hyundai dealership (just like he does at a D3 dealership) , and IF faced with a situation like an unwilling to negotiate dealer (think Honda or Toyota here) that he won't move on down the street and buy an Accord instead. Reputations and/or perceptions however justified - are nonetheless quite real
#6927 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [captain2]
Aug 26, 2010 (3:56 pm)
What the Hyundai dealers are doing (some at least) is resurrecting a practice first popularized by the J3--adding "ADM" stickers to cars. Whoa.. I feel the ground shaking a bit!
The uplift in Hyundai prices in the past few years is real. If you had been out in the marketplace looking at Hyundais vs competitors during that time, you would know that. Buyers (myself included) would love to get the Hyundais of today for yesterday's prices. Eventually reality intrudes on Shangri-La. If they don't like today's prices, they are free to go down the street and buy a Camcord or whatever (or a used S Class). However, record numbers of buyers are still choosing Hyundais, even with the uplift in prices. That's not rose colored glasses. That's reality, and the facts/numbers back it up.
#6928 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [fintail]
Aug 26, 2010 (3:59 pm)
Yeah, just huge ads proclaiming the low lease rates and rebates on MBs. If MB dealers want to play the "hide the sales price and only show the lease price" game (also played well by Honda), that's up to them. I prefer a more open approach.
#6930 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 26, 2010 (6:20 pm)
Wouldn't an open approach be the corporation showing the bottom line?
I checked the MBUSA special offer site...loads of lease deals - as per usual many of them not looking too exceptional, no use of the word rebate.
#6931 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [fintail]
Aug 27, 2010 (3:07 am)
Check dealer sites... that is what you were talking about anyway.
From dealer advertising to corporate accounting practices... large leaps we make here. Are you saying Hyundai's finances are not available for review?