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Hyundai Equus, Hyundai Genesis, Car Comparisons
#6700 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [fintail]
Aug 08, 2010 (2:50 pm)
Here's a couple of articles that have details on the trim levels. The first one was posted here a few days ago; I don't recall if the 2nd one was posted here before.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1007_2011_hyundai_equus_drive/index.h- - - - - tml
http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2010/07/2011-hyundai-equus-trim-levels-reveal- - - - - ed.html
As was said in one of the articles, the Ultimate trim appears aimed at those who prefer to be driven around (i.e. in back seat) vs. driving for themselves.
It appears the Equus will list for about $10k less than the LS, based on available info, but it's not clear if the equipment levels will be comparable. Even the base level ("Ultimate") Equus has a lot of equipment.
Would a person on a Sonata forum not be a H fan to begin with?
Why don't you go take a look at the 2011 Sonata discussion here, and you can see for yourself? You'll see a mix of: people interested in the car, interested in buying the car, owning the car, and not at all a fan of the car, or Hyundai for that matter.
As for market acceptance in Europe... inoffensive styling is not sufficient, but it is essential. If someone is turned off from a car because of the styling, they'll never bother to drive the car. Hmm... that seems familiar somehow...
Kinda strange for someone who owns a MB sedan to call the Gen 4 Sonata's styling "dull", isn't it? I think it's quite attractive, in a "timeless" kind of way. But then, I own one.
#6701 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 08, 2010 (4:27 pm)
Nice articles, thanks. A chauffeur driven Hyundai...amusing...Lexus hasn't even reached that point yet (but a normal LS might be nicer to ride in than drive in any kind of spirited manner).
Ah, you meant the Sonata discussion here, not a marque enthusiast site.
Controversial styling will still sell in Europe. Look at BMW...lots of people loathe their material of the past decade...but they sell like there's no tomorrow. That's because they drive nicely.
I think that Sonata is strongly influenced by the 03-07 Accord, but that's just me. I actually own 2 MB sedans...one is prehistoric and was funky even when new...the styling has a good base of admirers today. The more modern car is a decade old refresh of a 15 year old design...and the unwashed think it is new.
When H makes something that ages as well as a MB W126 or W124, wake me up and let me know
#6702 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [fintail]
Aug 08, 2010 (5:29 pm)
A chauffeur driven Hyundai...amusing...Lexus hasn't even reached that point yet...
Sure it has. You haven't heard of the LS 460 L (and 600h L)?
BMW sedans are as conservatively styled as they come. You have said a number of times that the Genesis looks like a knock-off of the 5 Series. The Genesis isn't exactly controversial in its styling, is it? Conservative can be ugly as well... didn't you say something like that a little while ago? If some of BMWs more recent designs haven't been fetching, it doesn't mean they aren't conservative.
Actually, the Gen 4 Sonata was influenced by the A6--Hyundai admitted to that. Some people see horizontal taillights and immediately think "Accord", as if no other cars have horizontal taillights.
So, take a look at this. Kinda boring, but clean and simple lines. I think it could pass today for a new car. But it was designed 20 years ago.
#6703 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 08, 2010 (6:35 pm)
I've never seen or heard of anyone being driven around in a LS, LWB or not...but I suppose it has happened somewhere, especially as a corporate hire car or in a less developed area. BTW, there's a current model LWB LS in the parking garage of the building where I live now. No chauffeurs here.
The previous 5er (the one that inspired the Genesis) was not conservative when one examines the details. The loud lighting, the odd interior...it was a big shock from the E39. The latest model has toned it down a notch. The 6er is also not really conservative, its just inelegant and weird. The E38, thats conservative.
I don't buy the Audi influence of that Sonata. Other than the front end, rear end,and greenhouse being different, I guess they are similar. Maybe another "unnamed European design house" penned that one too.
That old Elantra is a nice inoffensive toaster, nicer than the one that replaced it This is a face only a mother could love
#6704 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [fintail]
Aug 08, 2010 (7:17 pm)
The 6er was "inelegant and weird".. and defunct, yes? Yes, even those "big guys" blow it with their designs sometimes.
LS Ls being chauffeur-driven in "less developed" areas... that's a good one. Must be lots of folks who can afford chauffeur-driven LS Ls in those less developed areas. I'll bet the folks in the less-developed areas aren't riding in stretch LSes, but instead are being driven around in those low-priced used S Classers.
I'm not surprised you don't believe Hyundai's designers when they admit the A6 was the inspiration for the Gen 4 Sonata. You don't seem to believe any public statement any Hyundai representative makes.
#6705 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 09, 2010 (9:31 am)
6er is defunct? Thats news. It is slated for a new design for 2012, but as it is in its 7th model year now basically unchanged, I'd say it had a decent run. If that's "blown it", I'd hate to see what is needed to be successful. Ugly sold, maybe because of what's underneath.
I've never seen or heard of a chauffeur driving a LS, not something for NA or Europe - but I am sure in China or the less developed world where such hired help is more common, or for corporate use, it does exist. It's certainly more of a riders car.
H designers or their propagandist PR people can claim what they want...but can anyone show what elements of the old Sonata are like the A6? Maybe the round wheels or windows made out of glass?
#6706 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 09, 2010 (10:38 am)
Ah, c'mon! The Mercedes 600 Pullman Landaulet is the preferred choice of any good third world despot!
#6707 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [fintail]
Aug 09, 2010 (11:28 am)
Which means the 6 Series is not currently being produced.
I had no idea you were such a close follower of which cars are used around the world for drive-me-for-hire. What do you think the stretch "L" version of the LS was developed for?
There's a clear resemblance between the Sonata and A6 in profile, especially the roofline. If you can't see that, don't blame me, or Hyundai's designers.
#6708 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [backy]
Aug 09, 2010 (3:32 pm)
It's not currently being produced? I didn't know that. BMW still lists it as a current model on their site. I know the low volume M6 has been put on hiatus, probably for powertrain evolution, but as far as I know the homely 6er is alive and well.
LWB cars are all about more status,showing off that you bought the top model. Very few cars aren't owner-driver these days, especially for private owners in the developed world.
I don't see any similarity once one looks at the greenhouse (other than that the roof is relatively flat and the front and back are sloped...woo hoo) not to mention the entire side, front,and rear details are different. Methinks H drivers want to pretend they are in a distant relation to a fancy German instead of a normal old Accord
#6709 of 7308 Re: does acura still belong in the lux group? [smarty666]
Aug 09, 2010 (4:07 pm)
i think your caught up in the "advance" advertising. The car company has not put out a clear winner since the acura integra GS-R/TypeR. I would read some car mags, consumer reports, and look at whats selling --they all tell you the same thing-- acura has yet to "advance" past being middle of the pack. I would look elsewhere for a entry level sedan--or you can wait until 2012 when they start to figure out a direction. While you wait you should run down to your hyundai dealership and check out the new line of cars-- good think about acura (as i learned by the ads) is they have great resale and everyone knows about the great lease rates.