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What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Equus, Hyundai Genesis, Car Comparisons
#6364 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [fintail]
Jun 22, 2010 (2:45 pm)
Heck, there is even a Sonata lease thread right here at Edmunds with people putting down nothing to a pittance.
But not for $199/month, which is the deal you brought to the discussion. I am only pointing out that in the ads I've seen, there's big up-front costs for that deal--which has run since the debut of the 2011 Sonata. As for the ads proving there's no "run" on the car, are you suggesting that Hyundai should stop advertising its cars that are selling well? How about automakers like Toyota and Honda, then? Should they stop advertising or offering special lease deals or rebates because their cars are selling well?
Or better yet, buy a Sonata, one can't go wrong, right?
I already own one. How about you? How about getting some first-hand experience with the cars and brand that you like to talk so much about?
The tuned discussion was never about a DIY frankencar.
OK then. Here's your link to a tuned factory Genesis: tuned V6 and tranny (compared to the sedan), tuned suspension, special Brembo brakes, etc. Pricing information is in the article, so you know how much to withdraw from your piggy bank to buy one.
There's a gigantic difference between a lowline MB or Lexus vs a lowline H and the cost of maintaining a fleet of loaners of the respective cars.
One advantage of offering a full line of vehicles--loaners can be nice but less expensive cars like Elantras and Sonatas. Looks like Lexus and MB can catch up a bit though by offering owners of their high-end cars a low-end loaner, while Hyundai has committed to providing Equus or Genesis loaners for Equus owners.
#6365 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [backy]
Jun 22, 2010 (4:06 pm)
For $250/month then, same difference. Why do the ads scream about the sweetheart deals/low prices louder than the merits of the car? I don't think the aging Camcords are an apples to oranges comparison with the radically all new and much-ballyhooed Sonata either.
How about me? I haven't owned anything other than a MB since I was 18 years old. I have more "first hand experience" than most. Nice try though. And you don't own a Genesis or Equus, right? The cars relevant to this thread.
Yes, the mildly souped up "track" coupe. It's been out for over a year now, why is it just brought up now? Nice car, yes. And why doesn't this variant exist in the more useful sedan form?
Why should a nice loaner only go to Equus and not Genesis buyers? Isn't 43K + taxes and fees enough to gain admission into this club? And what commitment...the program exists only on paper right now. I can't see where the "catching up" is to be done.
#6366 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [fintail]
Jun 22, 2010 (5:37 pm)
Why do the ads scream about the sweetheart deals/low prices louder than the merits of the car?
Uh... the recession? I see lots of ads on the merits of the car, on TV and in mags.
I see lots of ads touting only price for MBs, Lexii, and Infinities. Low, subsidized lease rates. Why the heck do they do that, rather than just talking about how great the cars are? We have been told many times here that these luxury brands are worth paying more for than cars like the Genesis that are sold w/o a luxury brand--so why focus on price??
I have driven the Genesis. I've inspected the Equus up close and in person. How about you?
As for why I provided the link to the Track coupe... because you were begging for a link to a tuned factory Genesis. You're welcome, by the way.
I consider an Elantra or Sonata a very nice loaner, one I would be quite happy with on those rare occasions I'd have to bring in a Genesis sedan for service that I can't wait for. Why shouldn't MB provide an S Class loaner to C Class buyers?
#6367 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [backy]
Jun 22, 2010 (7:24 pm)
I've seen the ad about the touted paint quality...nothing else about the car I recall. Most of the time when sweetheart leases are screamed on TV for highline cars, it is for an aging product, especially in the last model year or two to clear out stock. Not usually for the latest and greatest.
Why would one waste the time of a salesman and test drive a car they had no intention to buy? Or did you know one well enough as to arrange a drive? I don't know any, and I have no desire to waste their time. But I've seen several and sat in both variants. I don't know if there's even an Equus in my area...and weird looking KDM designs aren't enough to get me going on a wild goose chase.
Why did it take so long to mention that "track" model? That wasn't what was linked before, was it? Is the coupe even a "luxury" vehicle to begin with? I don't know if that does it...no sedan, nothing really very intense...and I am not grateful
Sure there is nothing wrong with an Elantra or Sonata, but comparing loaning one to a Genesis owner a much lower car is kind of a distraction. How can an S-class even fall into discussion, when no credible person will equate it to any H product?
#6368 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [backy]
Jun 23, 2010 (6:11 am)
Why shouldn't MB provide an S Class loaner to C Class buyers?
The GM and owner of the company I work for both drive BMWs (a 7 and a 5). When they are in the shop (often!) there is always a 3 series as the loaner.
#6369 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [fintail]
Jun 23, 2010 (6:29 am)
Why would one waste the time of a salesman and test drive a car they had no intention to buy?
I agree completely. I don't like wasting time of salespeople asking for a test drive of a car I have zero intention of considering for ownership. My policy on that is, if the salesperson offers to let me take a car for a test drive, I'll do it (assuming I have time and interest). But I won't ask for a test drive unless I'd consider owning that car. On the Genesis, Hyundai had a test-drive event in my town back in 2008, so I got the chance to compare the Genesis (I chose the 3.8) head-to-head with the likes of the CTS and E Class (I chose the CTS--a $50k model; the $38k Genesis blew it away). And I saw the Equus at my local auto show this spring. It's too bad you don't have an auto show in your area--they are lots of fun.
Most of the time when sweetheart leases are screamed on TV for highline cars, it is for an aging product, especially in the last model year or two to clear out stock. Not usually for the latest and greatest.
Not sure why you are focusing on TV ads, but I see lots of ads in the paper on high-line cars with the lease prices in big print--I guess that could be considered "screaming". Nothing on how great the cars are. And this is for relatively new models--C Class, E Class, ES, RX, and M for example. So I have no idea why you are singling out Hyundai here. Everyone advertises price in this tough market.
The S Class loaners fall into the discussion because you seem to be asserting that Hyundai should offer Genesis loaners for Genesis service work. So I think it's reasonable that automakers like MB offer like-for-like for service work, e.g. an E Class for an E Class, and an S Class for an S Class--and not a lowly C Class. If it's OK for MB to hand out C Class loaners for cars that cost twice as much, then IMO it's fine for Hyundai to offer loaners like the Sonata and even the Elantra for cars that cost twice as much (Genesis).
Re the Track Genesis, I gave you the link because you insisted you wanted a factory tuned car, not one that was DIY. (Most "tuned" cars use add-on products, btw. That's why they're called "tuned".) But I won't be providing you with any other links, no matter how many times you demand them. You'll have to find them yourself.
#6370 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [tjc78]
Jun 23, 2010 (6:28 am)
At least it's not a Mini Cooper!
#6371 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [backy]
Jun 23, 2010 (6:40 am)
It would do neither Hyundai nor Edmond's any good to explain to me, you, or anybody else the intracies of the advertising business. Think about it - if it would get out that the Krafcik piece is nothing more than a paid advertisement then it challenges the legitamacy of the article, OR FTM conversely if it is the case that Edmond's has decided to 'publish' ' biased interviews with selected company execs without some sort of compensation then it would challenge Edmond's supposed objectivity and also open the door for that whole 'equal time' problem I mentioned earlier.
Heaven knows that there is a large J3 company right now, that would just love to tell us about how they're solving all their problems, extoll on their products virtues and other accomplishments etc - if only they could get Edmond's to help them do it - for nothing, of course.
Your problem is that you are all to quick to bite on anything anybody says as long as it is what you want to hear. Call me the proverbial doubting Thomas - I look deeper than that and recognize that money is ultimately behind almost everything
#6372 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [captain2]
Jun 23, 2010 (7:07 am)
I guess you don't understand what "op-ed" means, do you? The Krafcik piece was clearly identified as being "op-ed", or:
An op-ed, abbreviated from opposite the editorial page (though often mistaken for opinion-editorial), is a newspaper article that expresses the opinions of a named writer who is usually unaffiliated with the newspaper's editorial board. These are different from editorials, which are usually unsigned and written by editorial board members.
i.e., it's an OPINION. There's no harm in publishing opinions on a web site if they are clearly identified as such. I recognize an opinion piece when I see it. And I have no problem determining whether I agree with the opinion or not.
Since you refuse to confirm whether or not Edmunds.com paid for the Krafcik piece, I'll ask their PR people about it and let you know what I find out.
#6373 of 7308 Re: The Equus Story (why it's not the Phaeton) [backy]
Jun 23, 2010 (7:16 am)
If a salesperson offers a test drive, isn't some feigned interest assumed? Why else would he offer? I have been to plenty of auto shows, none of the local shows had an Equus. Maybe H dropped the ball in promoting it in this region, or maybe they don't think it will go over well here...as the Genesis isn't exactly a daily sight either.
I don't read newspaper car ads, maybe I am missing out. I am unaware of any loud sweetheart lease promotion for any of those cars within a few months of introduction - although admittedly they offer some amazing deals as a given model is nearing the end of its lifespan. Apples to oranges.
I'm just curious as why only the highest model gets the highline loaner, where if I buy a 43K highline make, I will get a loaner from the same make. Maybe once the Equus is offically here, the Genesis loaners will also be offered to Genesis owners. Of course, they will never be used anyway, as these are flawless machines.
Nice story about the "track" coupe...why wasn't it brought up when asked ages ago? It's not a new model. Was it the same link from before? I guess that will be a secret forever, as I couldn't find it, and nobody can produce it Was the old Elantra GT a tuned model too? No tuned 'luxury' model...