Last post on Mar 09, 2013 at 10:56 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views
What is this discussion about?
Hyundai Equus, Hyundai Genesis, Car Comparisons
#5979 of 7308 Re: Example of making room for Hyundai [captain2]
Apr 26, 2010 (6:04 pm)
they really will buy what they are TOLD is good, what they think their neighbors think is good, or what they previously bought probably for the same reasons.
Then LOTS of American auto buyers were TOLD that Hyundais are good, that their neighbors think Hyundai is good, or were repeat buyers last month. And over the past few years actually.
I do give many American auto buyers a lot of credit. I see lots of evidence of smart shopping every day, including here in Town Hall.
But I don't give all American auto buyers a lot of credit. Some will do exactly what you say they do: base their auto buying decision on what someone else TELLS them is good, or what their neighbors think is good, or keep buying the same brand without checking out alternatives.
As for Hyundai's transformation, sorry, those who say it started in 2006 have their facts wrong. It started in the late '90s, with a switch to a quality focus from the previous focus on low price. It started showing up in models that debuted in the early 2000s, with the 2001 Elantra and Santa Fe notable examples. It continued big-time with the 24 x 7 product launch in the middle of the decade. And then came the Genesis, and the 2nd wave of 24 x7 vehicles such as the 2011 Sonata, and soon the Equus.
How many millions of people, how big a market share does Hyundai have to achieve, before it has some "room" in the luxury market? Not dominate the luxury market, not have equal sales to long-time participants in that market, but have a slice of the market? I think you are setting a very unrealistic and unfair bar for Hyundai in that regard--much higher than I'd bet you'd set for any other automaker. Take Bentley, for example. Is there room in the luxury market for them? But their sales volume pales in comparison to Hyundai's.
#5980 of 7308 Re: Interesting.. [tjc78]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:16 pm)
"A discount store selling a premium item is a lot different than a budget manufacturer selling a premium item. If all of sudden Timex started selling solid gold and diamond watches at 2/3 the price of a Cartier do you think Cartier would be scared?"
But Hyundai is a full-line manufacturer, much like Toyota is in Japan.
Again, while Hyundai is seen as a mainstream brand in the US, in its homemarket, it's seen differently.
And if Timex had started a premium line (like Toyota did w/ Lexus) or took over other watch brands (like Swatch) - why not?
Actually, cheap Japanese quartz watches were instrumental in SSIH (Omega/Tissot) going bankrupt in around 1980.
Also, Seiko has a line of dive watches that retail for around $7-10K that are highly regarded by watch afficiandos (more so than Cartier watches - which are more jewelry and not really taken seriously by watch snobs).
#5981 of 7308 Re: Interesting.. [tjc78]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:24 pm)
"I don't. The whole thing about luxury is the total package. Its the car, the service, the dealership experience, and unfortunately the badge. If someone sees you pull up in an ES350 or a Genesis, which one does the majority of the population think is a:) more expensive and/or b: more luxurious? That is what a luxury name and image suggest. "
On the service front, the Equus will have most luxury brands beat - w/ pick-up and drop-off service, guaranteed Equus or Genesis loaner, etc.
Also the Equus (for those Hyundai dealers that will actually get to sell the Equus) will have its own separate showroom.
#5982 of 7308 Re: Interesting.. [tjc78]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:27 pm)
"IMO the ES outsold the Gen (in its third year BTW) is simply because of the Lexus name (in 2007 it sold nearly 90K units). It doesn't matter to me, its just for the discussion purposes and why Hyundai doesn't have a good enough brand recognition yet to be in the luxury market."
In that case, why didn't the Lexus GS outsell the Genesis in 2009, or the Infiniti M (the Genesis sedan outsold them by a 2:1 margin)?
Or for that matter, the A6, the S80, etc.?
Even the new M is barely outselling the Genesis sedan.
#5983 of 7308 Re: Brand Perception Challenges/Prejudices [schnellesauto]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:31 pm)
True, but I wouldn't count on that. Didn't last month Toyota just have one of their best sales months in their history or something like that?
Toyota's sales for March 2010 is still below their March 2008 sales; whereas Hyundai is one of the few manufacturers to have sales greater than their March 2008 sales.
Also, Toyota threw a lot of $$$ on the hood (more than Hyundai) and bumped up their fleet sales (in Feb., Toyota had the highest % of fleet sales, followed by Ford).
#5984 of 7308 Re: Interesting.. [tjc78]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:38 pm)
"I disagree there. They are the closest cars to the Genesis in terms of size, power, and drive wheels. However, I believe the competitors of the Genesis are the Maxima, Avalon, ES, TL and G. I am a firm believer that people shop by price point."
That's quite the range in size and drivetrain configuration/HP.
Frankly, every owner of a G that I know wouldn't be caught dead in an Avalon, much less an ES.
So what will the next-gen Hyundai Azera be compared to - the Camry and Accord?
And I guess that means the new Sonata is being compared mostly to the Corolla and Civic instead of the Camcord.
It also means that the LS400 must have been cross-shopped mostly w/ the C Class and 3 Series and not even the E Class and 5 Series, since it was closer in price to the C and 3.
#5985 of 7308 Re: Example of making room for Hyundai [fintail]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:41 pm)
"The Hyundai PR department probably paid for the "article"...I am unaware of any truly independent automotive review source on this continent. Certainly when MSN and WSJ are being sought for raves, something is off. "
Yeah, cuz Hyundai is known to be such a big advertiser in the WSJ - lol!
#5986 of 7308 Re: Example of making room for Hyundai [captain2]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:46 pm)
"The thought that the $20k appliance otherwise known as a Sonata would have any appeal to the enthusiast, looking for something entry level (like the 3s) is a joke. Hyundai may be doing a lot of things lately but getting into any portion of the market where the true enthusiasts live is NOT one of them."
In your blind rage against Hyundai - you're missing the point.
As others have already noted - the Sonata could pull in some buyers who, after a positive experience, may give the more upscale Hyundai models a look (there have been some owners of the ES and TSX who have moved on to the Sonata).
And speaking of appliances, the ES (which is way more of an appliance than the new Sonata) did a pretty good job of pulling buyers to the other products in the Lexus lineup.
#5987 of 7308 Re: Example of making room for Hyundai [captain2]
Apr 26, 2010 (9:54 pm)
more like 15 but what the h_. NOT perceptions BTW FACTS (Hyundai earned every bit of their crappy reputation back then) ) and I guarantee you that I'm not nearly the only one that has a memory - some of us have real memories , some of us amnesia, I guess"
And there are still some stubborn old fogies in their 70s-80s who think Toyotas, Datsuns and Hondas (much less VW) are crap.
And btw, that crappy reputation was built largely by using substandard powerplants and drivetrains sourced from Mitsubishi.
Care to figure out where Hyundai's reliability rankings are in comparison to Mitsu? (Not to mention Mitsu having covered up dangerous defects.)
#5988 of 7308 Re: Brand Perception Challenges/Prejudices [captain2]
Apr 26, 2010 (10:12 pm)
"right now that is true - but think back to earlier Infiniti badged products - wasn't it products that were rebadges like the G20, I30 as well as Nissan's more pedestrian brand rep that hampered Infiniti's early successes. But all mfgrs rebadge to some degree, it really gets to be a question of scope and how that effects brand reputation. Cars like the ES, the TSX, the 1s, the Cs are all supposedly all 'entry level' and they all brand image to some degree. The Gen Coupe may be a perfectly fine rice rocket or pony car - but does nothing but hurt any ambitions that Hyundai might have in getting accepted as a luxury brand - it shouldn't be called a Genesis at all"
Uhh, ever hear of a thing called the Integra?
The GenCoupe is as upscale, if not more so than the Integra - and it's not like the G35 had a better interior/dash before its refresh (due to Ghosn's cost-cutting) - and for a quite a bit more $$ at that.
And the GenCoupe is definitely more upscale than the Acura CSX, and probably on par w/ the Lexus HS and CT.
Anyway, it will soon be a moot point since the next gen GenCoupe is going upmarket.