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Hyundai Equus, Hyundai Genesis, Car Comparisons
#2680 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [akuma]
Aug 10, 2009 (5:50 pm)
Not sure what you are saying about redesigns. It depends on where you start counting. For example, the start of their "24/7" initiative was the Tucson, in late 2004, followed by the Gen 4 Sonata, then the Gen 3 Accent, Azera, Accent hatch, Santa Fe, Entourage, Veracruz, and finally the Gen 4 Elantra (ok, that's actually 24/9, oops!). But in between the 24/7 initiative and "24/7 2.0", Hyundai launched the Genesis sedan--itself not part of 24/7 2.0. The first car in that series was the Elantra Touring, followed shortly after by the Genesis coupe. The others coming in 24/7 2.0 are the Gen 2 Tucson, the Gen 5 Sonata, replacements for the Accent sedan and coupe, and an all-new crossover (replacing the Veracruz maybe?). No mention in the press of where the Azera, Santa Fe, and Entourage fall in the 24/7 2.0. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Entourage go bye-bye, it's a slow seller. The Gen 3 Santa Fe might fall outside the 2009-11 window for 24/7 2.0, as might the Gen 2 Azera--if it survives? The Gen 5 Elantra also likely falls just outside the window, as it would not be due for redesign until MY 2012 at the earliest.
So as you can see, Hyundai is focusing a lot on their "lower-end" models, including the bread-and-butter Sonata, the Accent, and their lower-end SUV, while further developing their high-end models like the Equus.
#2681 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [backy]
Aug 10, 2009 (6:08 pm)
Hyundai will discontinue the Entourage after this year because it was essentially the same as it's Kia's minivan
#2682 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [backy]
Aug 10, 2009 (7:55 pm)
i don't know how they planned it, but regardless, i consider the Genesis sedan to be the first car of this current "renaissance", or the "beginning (genesis)" so to speak. i think "24/7" is just a neat marketing term developed by Krafcik. the Elantra Touring is actually based on the I30 available in hatchback and wagon form in Korea since 2007. it's kind of like how the Honda Fit was already at the end of its model cycle when it arrived in the states. the first 24/7 is when Hyundai finally started catching up to the competition.
there was nothing all new for model year 2008. this next batch (24/7 2.0 or whatever) starting with the Genesis is where i believe they start passing the competition. the Genesis coupe wasn't the home run, but it's definitely a solid hit with room for improvement, even with the disappointing sales. the Equus is already out, and is just waiting for the right time to enter the U.S. market. the VG concept (the next all new model out of Hyundai/Kia after the Sorento and IX-35/Tucson) has already debuted, and though it's not truly a Hyundai design, if the Azera is continued, it will almost certainly use that platform. the Sonata is almost certainly to follow and then the Elantra and Accent (i don't know which one's first, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was the Elantra, considering the Forte's already out). in the meantime, the IX-35/Tucson will be followed by the Santa Fe and then the Vera Cruz. somewhere in between, the Veloster/Tiburon will debut and the 3-series version of the Genesis will appear but probably in Kia form, particularly if the Azera lives on.
anyway, i don't know how this is any different that what i stated before. there seems to be a descending order in their sedans, and an ascending order in their crossovers. the compact CUV market has been hot for a few years (cooled down a bit in this economy) and the Tucscon/IX-35 and Sorento (followed by the Santa Fe) will address that need the sooner the better. on the other hand, with their cars (the small car and family car market isn't going anywhere), Hyundai currently has decent offerings and still has time to develop their hybrid (lithion ion polymer and liquified petroleum/propane), engine(direct injection and diesel), and transmission technology (all new in house 6 speed and 8 speed automatics) to be used in their economy offerings.
#2683 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [akuma]
Aug 11, 2009 (4:56 am)
i think "24/7" is just a neat marketing term developed by Krafcik.
Much more than just a neat marketing term, but an entire product development and rollout strategy--revamp Hyundai's entire lineup within two years. No surprise there were no new models for 2008 MY (although the revamped 2009 Sonata debuted early in 2008)--they had to stop and catch their breath sometime!
i don't know which one's first, but i wouldn't be surprised if it was the Elantra, considering the Forte's already out
According to Hyundai, the Accent replacement (sedan and a coupe) will come first, before the Elantra. The Accent's design is older than the Elantra's, for one thing. And the Forte is not all that different than the Elantra (almost exactly the same size, for example), and in fact the Elantra's design has some advantages over the Forte's, particularly fully independent suspension. The Elantra will likely get powertrains more like the Forte's as part of the mid-generation refresh, and will have a high-FE variant ala the Forte.
there seems to be a descending order in their sedans, and an ascending order in their crossovers
Descending in what way? If we start with the Genesis, as you suggest, the order is:
Elantra Touring (a hatch, but not an SUV so I'll count it with the sedans)
That doesn't look like any kind of particular order by size etc. that I can see. As for crossovers, the historic order was more ascending than anything:
Entourage (well, kind of an SUV--not a sedan anyway)
And now we are back to the new Tucson, followed by the new crossover that will be larger than the Tucson, then (maybe) the Santa Fe and (maybe maybe) the Veracruz replacements. Again, more an ascending order, at least in size.
Hyundai's LiPolymer, propane, direct injection, and diesel technologies are already developed--we just don't have them yet! But soon...
#2684 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [backy]
Aug 11, 2009 (2:33 pm)
don't like to be a stickler, but the Elantra Touring (I30) was developed and released in Korea well before the Genesis, just slightly after the last Elantra redesign. speaking of the Elantra, what exactly did they redesign besides the sheetmetal? besides more interior room (the last generation was already classified as a midsize car; 95 passenger cubic feet according to Yahoo autos) and a little bit of engine tuning for a few more hp and better fuel economy, the car hasn't fundamentally changed in over 9 years and is really starting to get long in the tooth. i don't think its almost exactly like the Forte at all. i don't know how much they can change the current Elantra with just a refresh, although i hope the next Elantra keeps the independent rear suspension.
Hyundai's already completed development of their direct injection engines? that's news to me. in what current application, here or elsewhere? the Genesis sedan and coupe could definitely use it (particularly the coupe); benefiting from more power and better fuel economy. most cars with direct injection usually get around 10% increases in both categories; a bit more for power and less for FE. i don't think propane will ever really catch on over here.
to veer back to the topic at hand, there's definitely room in the luxury market for Hyundai, even without a new luxury division based on increasing sales of the Genesis sedan in conjunction with decreasing sales of the other high end makes. the Equus should likely improve the brand's image even with its expected limited sales.
this is a more of a Genesis issue, but i think Hyundai should stick with virgin steel for the chassis and body, as opposed to recycled scrap steel to provide a much more consistent quality of their ride over uneven surfaces. sure, it might raise the cost several hundred dollars, but there are some things that a luxury car shouldn't skimp on.
#2685 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [akuma]
Aug 11, 2009 (3:53 pm)
speaking of the Elantra, what exactly did they redesign besides the sheetmetal?
All-new exterior. All-new interior. New wheels (with 16" alloys on SE). Added ABS and 6 airbags as standard, and ESC as standard on the SE. Dropped the hatchback (initially). Revised suspension. Stiffened platform. Revised engine (although still Beta II). Revised AT.
Think about it: Hyundai would have to have completed their direct injection engine development in order to put them into US models such as the new Tucson this fall. They don't finish development of an engine a few weeks before putting cars onto dealer lots.
Personally, I don't think virgin steel in the Genesis is a good idea. I think the looks of the car are very important, so I would not want anything that would detract from the looks.
Yes, I know that is a variation of a very old and very bad joke. My apologies.
#2686 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [akuma]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Aug 11, 2009 (4:04 pm)
I like the Elantra Touring (I30) a lot, but I think it was developed by the Hyundai European Team in Germany.
As far as the refresh, I'm not real wild about the engine in the Touring we get in the US - should be non-interference and they should try to eek out another couple of mpg out of it (26 mpg combined isn't much to smile about these days).
#2687 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [backy]
Aug 11, 2009 (9:39 pm)
Elantra Touring (a hatch, but not an SUV so I'll count it with the sedans)
You forgot the nicest FWD sedan around!! The A Z E R A !!!!
PS: I really like the Elantra Touring. Too bad there's no V6 or 5 speed AT!!
PPS: Once you get over 25MPG, higher MPG doesn't really matter much unless you drive a lot of miles!
#2688 of 7308 Re: Hyundai Genesis [fourteen14]
by Stever@Edmunds HOST
Aug 11, 2009 (10:15 pm)
higher MPG doesn't really matter much
Unless you are trying for the extra $1,000 in clunker money and your current ride, like mine, is at 18 combined (meaning the new car has to get 28 combined).
The 5 speed MT worked well (and are all of y'all sure that it's a hatch and not a wagon? )
#2689 of 7308 Borrego Counterpart
Aug 12, 2009 (4:15 am)
When's Hyundai going to release an "upscale" version of the Kia Borrego? That's a nice SUV as it is, but deserves some premium treatment. It should've been brought to market as a Hyundai in the first place. How's it selling, BTW?