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Is There Room in the Luxury Market for Hyundai?

4244 messages,  Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 10:46 AM

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What is this discussion about? Hyundai Equus, Hyundai Genesis, Car Comparisons

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#1683 of 4244 by m4d_cow Jan 15, 2009 (7:56 am)
if I owned a Bentley, I would definitely put a Hyundai or other handy badge on it. It wouldn't affect the car 1 bit, and would fool stupid thieves that look for expensive cars.   Rather than smacking the H on the hood it'd be much better to just remove the emblem and leave it blank.
#1684 of 4244 Re: [m4d_cow] by backy Jan 15, 2009 (8:38 am)
Replying to: m4d_cow (Jan 15, 2009 7:55 am) Hmm, you bring up a possible strategy for Hyundai: cut back on product quality and warranty support, and use the savings to fund improvements in dealerships: nicer waiting rooms, white lab coats for all the techs, espresso machines, leather sofas etc. That would put Hyundai more on par with the likes of MB, maybe give Hyundai a fighting chance in the luxury sedan market, yes? Replies to this message: Jozz (Jan 16, 2009 3:34 pm)
#1685 of 4244 Re: [fintail] by lemko Jan 15, 2009 (10:46 am)
Replying to: fintail (Jan 14, 2009 2:07 pm) I thought that logo only appeared on a Celica. Hmmm. It IS a Viking ship. All these years I thought it was a swan.
#1686 of 4244 Re: [m4d_cow] by bobad Jan 15, 2009 (5:10 pm)
Replying to: m4d_cow (Jan 15, 2009 7:55 am) The only thing you point out from so many different things to consider about a luxury car is "reliability" here. Another one is "value". What about: quality, materials, comfort, proper customer service, refinement????   Yes, thanks. Because of Hyundai's excellent record the past 3 years, I sort of thought it went without saying.
#1687 of 4244 by m4d_cow Jan 16, 2009 (6:17 am)
cut back on product quality and warranty support, and use the savings to fund improvements in dealerships: nicer waiting rooms, white lab coats for all the techs, espresso machines, leather sofas etc. That would put Hyundai more on par with the likes of MB, maybe give Hyundai a fighting chance in the luxury sedan market, yes?   Uh, not really. What they need is experience and money, both. Money doesn't seem to be an issue given the company's success. Experience is lacking though.   What needs to be done: invest money in product development, material development, dealerships, and customer service. It has to be all of them, not 1 or 2. Yes Hyundai can cut down the 10yr warranty a bit and allocate the money elsewhere.   Because of Hyundai's excellent record the past 3 years, I sort of thought it went without saying   Hyundai's 3 years of excellent records in what? In reliability, value and warranty, yes that goes without saying. In regular class customer service, quality materials and refinement, good enough already. In luxury class? Still a long way.   Easy example: take the plastic bits and metal or wood trims used in the Gen's cabin and compare them next to a Lexus GS or ES (luxury standard). Next, compare them to Maxima's or Buick LaCrosse's (upscale standard). About on par with the upscale class and still way below luxury class. Need I say more? Replies to this message: backy (Jan 16, 2009 6:25 am)
#1688 of 4244 Re: [m4d_cow] by backy Jan 16, 2009 (6:25 am)
Replying to: m4d_cow (Jan 16, 2009 6:17 am) What they need is experience and money, both.   Money can buy experience... e.g. Mercedes "buying" some of Hyundai's expertise recently, hiring away a lead of the Genesis program. Hyundai could buy expertise in customer service.   What needs to be done: invest money in product development, material development, dealerships, and customer service.   I thought there was some consensus that Hyundai's problem now isn't the product, which is very competitive in its class, but dealerships and customer service. Easy example: take the plastic bits and metal or wood trims used in the Gen's cabin and compare them next to a Lexus GS or ES (luxury standard).   That has been done by multiple 3rd parties, and Genesis compares quite well there, e.g. raves about the leather dash and overall quality of the car. CR for one has rated the Genesis over Lexus in its class.
#1689 of 4244 by m4d_cow Jan 16, 2009 (7:34 am)
e.g. raves about the leather dash and overall quality of the car. CR for one has rated the Genesis over Lexus in its class.   Have you done it yourself? I have, and I say Lexus still got better materials. However I do admit the leather seats are nice. The leather dash looks greats and makes great color and design combination for the cabin, yes. Does it feel upscale? Nope, how about the seats? yes they do.   I thought there was some consensus that Hyundai's problem now isn't the product, which is very competitive in its class, but dealerships and customer service.   The consensus was based on Genesis being positioned in the near luxo class. In this class the car is more than just competitive, it's just plain good. However some people here (you know who you are) insist that the cars are just as good as higher level luxury cars. Not yet.   Money can buy experience... e.g. Mercedes "buying" some of Hyundai's expertise recently, hiring away a lead of the Genesis program. Hyundai could buy expertise in customer service.   Good idea to speed up the improvements and establish the brand quicker.   It's not as easy as it used to be, as standards keep going up. Acura is one good example that failed to reach higher than entry level luxury (TL rules, RL tanked). Compared to Hyundai, Acura has superior customer service (excellent even), dealership experience excels, and it has stellar image. Yet it failed to compete in the upper luxury class. Why? Because Acura didn't make the right car up to standard. Materialwise it's excellent, but everything else from engineering to technology and reliability lacked severely.   Productwise: by luxury standards, Ssangyong Chairman is the true Korean luxury car. Looks horrific outside, but inside you get soft leather and real wood everywhere. The other is Hyundai's own Equus, but it's dead and scheduled for replacement next yr. Replies to this message: backy (Jan 16, 2009 8:30 am)
#1690 of 4244 Ssangyong Chairman by lemko Jan 16, 2009 (7:41 am)
Here's a pic:     Looks like a Korean copy of an older S-Class Mercedes. Replies to this message: m4d_cow (Jan 16, 2009 7:57 am) fintail (Jan 16, 2009 9:43 am) lemko (Jan 16, 2009 9:57 am) Jozz (Jan 16, 2009 3:42 pm)
#1691 of 4244 Re: Ssangyong Chairman [lemko] by m4d_cow Jan 16, 2009 (7:57 am)
Replying to: lemko (Jan 16, 2009 7:41 am) Yes, like I said, horrific outside, bland inside but the materials are first-rate (I've been in one). Real wood, not the colored plastic like inside the Genesis, and a nice one btw. The soft leather was smooth enough, even appropriate for a BMW.   Looks like a Korean copy of an older S-Class Mercedes.   You're not mistaken, that's because: 1) The car was designed on 90s MB S-class platform. 2) The Chairman use MB's 7G-tronic and 4matic system. 3) Since the 90s Ssangyong engineers and technician received education and training at Stuttgart. 4) MB was directly involved in Ssangyong's product development in the 90s.
#1692 of 4244 Re: [m4d_cow] by backy Jan 16, 2009 (8:30 am)
Replying to: m4d_cow (Jan 16, 2009 7:34 am) Have you done it yourself?   Yes I have. IMO there is not a significant difference between the interior quality of the ES/GS or Genesis. I do think the Genesis feels "upscale." We'll just have to disagree on that one.   IMO the main problem with Acura is that their cars aren't worth the price premium over a Honda. The Accord EX-L for example is a very nice car. How can Acura justify a huge price premium over the Accord for what is a very similar car? The TSX for another example is a nice little car, but way overpriced for what you get--a relatively cramped, low-powered car for about the same price as a much larger, nicer, more powerful Genesis V6 or several other cars. A year-old Certified 3-Series or a new TSX? Wow, tough choice there!

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