Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
SUVs Mazda CX-7 Outlander vs CX-7 vs Tribeca
263 messages, Last post on Sep 19, 2007 at 7:05 AM
You are in the Mazda CX-7 Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & tidester
|
Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 27, 2007 6:40 am) I think you took the concept of competitive motorsports out of context. It's no different from asking the question, "where can I test drive an f1 car?"  Again, there are people amazed at looking cars going around in circles in a closed paved circuit, and there are others who want to see competition modified vehicles pitted against the competition in the extreme of road conditions. Rallying is not about marketing the actual rally cars, because there's no way 99% of the driving public is able to afford one. It's more about the engineering capability of the company that participates. Mitsubishi does not own a racing circuit, to my knowledge, because they race all over the world, where there are rallies. You are talking of Mazda being raced in the race tracks of America, Mitsubishi vehicles are being raced by private individuals in Asia, Europe, Middle East, and Americas. And most of these competitions are FIA regulated, which requires strict homologation, not some tuners getting their high running circles.
|
|
|
Replying to: rcpax (Aug 27, 2007 7:26 am) Not really. I just didn't understand why that was brought up. We were talking about what CR said about the Outlander, and he replyed with that data about a rally race from a different vehicle. It made no sence. Rallying is not about marketing the actual rally cars Sure it is. Look at Subaru's new WRX commercial. They show a rally WRX flipping, and the driver wanting another one. Audi also uses their rally footage, archived and current day to promote their vehilces all the time. They are not always the actual vehicles, but, darn close. Mitsubishi does not own a racing circuit, to my knowledge, because they race all over the world, where there are rallies. You are talking of Mazda being raced in the race tracks of America, Mitsubishi vehicles are being raced by private individuals in Asia, Europe, Middle East, and Americas As does Mazda. Mazdas are raced all over the world as well. I just have no data as to how many. That is whay I posted what the SCCA said about Mazdas in America.
|
|
|
Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 27, 2007 7:47 am) See, I'm not even talking commercials here but actual rally coverage, with actual rally cars. WRX is not a rally car, it's a street car. The WRX may look like the Subaru Impreza WRC06, but that's where all similarities end, in the basic shape only. And you know why they're darn close? That's called homologation. They advertise the base car using competition model because that's the essence of competitive motorsports. Use it to showcase how well you can engineer your product. Mitsubishi has been in that tradition since its inception. That's why Mitsubishi has always been proud of its achievement in these fields. Bragging about it doesn't mean driving your Outlander in the desert and do the Dakar as some poster said in the other thread, because then that would only mean you don't even have the basic understanding of how competitive motorsports work. As a proof of this rally engineering excellence, Mitsubishi incorporates a lot of things learned from competition into their products. The Outlander was born out of the same concept car where the current Dakar champion Pajero(Montero) Evolution MPR13 was also based from. That's why the Outlander has been praised for its handling, among other things. Some call the paddle shifters gimmick, which is a rally car feature, but for me, who used to drive manual, it's a very nice compromise. It would never have the feel of a manual, but for me it's close enough. I don't think I can live with that overrevving when doing overtakes, and the paddle shifters put me in control. Power when I need it. I understand that other auto makers don't follow the same path in their vehicle design. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 27, 2007 6:28 am) The turbocharger part of the engine, is not it, therefore the turbo lag qualifies as engine problem. In CR review they talk about this problem: “the power delivery, road noise, and interior packaging are critical weaknesses”, “The unusual choice of a small-displacement, turbo engine in a midsized SUV results in unpleasant lulls and surges in the power delivery. The engine wakes up slowly from idling at a standstill, with a long second or two of turbo lag before the power kicks in under throttle. When merging onto a highway or accelerating from a rolling stop, the driver experiences a disconcerting pause, after which the acceleration comes on abruptly--often too strong for the desired response”, “the engine's real-world power delivery is its Achilles' heel. The delayed throttle response and raspy sounds are simply out of place”, “failed to impress us overall”
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: chelentano (Aug 27, 2007 8:22 am) Regardless, CR tested a model before the major software revision which alleviated almost all of those power delivery comments. I had the original programming and then had it updated, and can tell you it is like night and day. Sadly, with a normally aspirated engine(Outlander or otherwise), you do not have the same level of control via programming. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 27, 2007 6:40 am) Well, you brought up Mazda Miata, which is unrelated to this thread; it's not even SUV. So I just responded in kind. The Outlander is at least a direct decendant of Pajero. And reliability of Pajero is in its success. Just to get through that desert you need hell of reliability. To win the rally multiple times you need even more reliability. And you need the best AWD system to acomplish that!
|
|
|
Replying to: chelentano (Aug 27, 2007 8:22 am) |
|
|
Replying to: chelentano (Aug 27, 2007 8:57 am) I brought up the Miata because you said no Mazdas were in the top according to CR, and the Miata is. So, I brought it up. What does the Pajero have to do with CR? Nothing. See the relevance on my part, and non relevance on your part? Just to get through that desert you need hell of reliability That is just not true. It has to perform well, not be reliable. You would like it reliable. But, race driven vehicles tend to break, a lot. Chevy, Dodge and Ford bring their stock cars to the track every weekend. Does that make them reliable? And you need the best AWD system to acomplish that! Does the Outlander have the same AWD system as the Pajero? If not, the Pajero has no relevance to this thread.Are you going to drive a Outlander in the sand in Africa? I doubt it. Also, the Outlander is not marketed to the "rally" or off road crowd, like a Jeep is. So, what does rally heritage have to do with the Outlander? The only thing I can think of is it uses AWD technology that has helped win races. But, how does that correlate to the Outlander if you are not going to drive it in the desert?? Atleast Mazda uses and tests their technology on pavement, where 99% of people drive. AWD is not the only deciding factor on how a vehicle performs. Power, suspension, weight, transmission wheel base, all have a part in how a vehicle performs. Not the AWD alone.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: carlitos92 (Aug 27, 2007 8:29 am) Of course it’s engine problem. It’s not an A/C or stereo problem. Even CR says “the engine's real-world power delivery is its Achilles' heel. The delayed throttle response and raspy sounds are simply out of place”. I am glad, that you fixed it, but a reliable engine does not need to be fixed on the first year. |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: aviboy97 (Aug 27, 2007 10:56 am) I don’t see Miata here nor any other Mazda here:  I understand Miata won Consumer Reports “Most Fun to Drive” award, but it has nothing to do with reliability, which was a subject of this discussion. So Miata is irrelevant here. >> That is just not true. It has to perform well, not be reliable. You would like it reliable. But, race driven vehicles tend to break, a lot. Chevy, Dodge and Ford bring their stock cars to the track every weekend. Does that make them reliable? Dakar Rally is very tough and it goes on for weeks. You can’t replace a broken car in the middle of Rally. That’s why Chevy, Dodge and Ford never won the Dakar Rally. >> Does the Outlander have the same AWD system as the Pajero? If not, the Pajero has no relevance to this thread. As a proof of this rally engineering excellence, Mitsubishi incorporates a lot of things learned from competition into their products. The Outlander was born out of the same concept car where the current Dakar champion Pajero (Montero) Evolution MPR13 was also based from. That's why the Outlander has been praised for its handling, among other things. (rcpax ) >> AWD is not the only deciding factor on how a vehicle performs. Power, suspension, weight, transmission wheel base, all have a part in how a vehicle performs. That’s right and this means, that Mitsubishi rally success is a good indication, that they know how to build quality vehicles in terms of power, suspension, transmission, wheel base and AWD.
|
|
You are here:
Forums
SUVs Mazda CX-7 Outlander vs CX-7 vs Tribeca
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Mazda CX-7
2010 Mitsubishi Outlander
2007 Subaru B9 Tribeca
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
