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Article Comments - 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX First Drive & Full Test

121 messages,  Last post on Sep 13, 2007 at 9:15 AM

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What is this discussion about? Subaru Impreza WRX STi, Sedan, Wagon

Article comments for
 
First Drive: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX - Now that Subaru has abandoned its flirtation with the big-grille design ethic that has changed the look of so many cars in the last five years, its designers have gone for something more mainstream. (more)
 
Full Test: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX - Power delivery is improved, as peak power of 224 horsepower comes 400 rpm earlier at 5,200 rpm, while peak torque of 226 pound-feet arrives 800 rpm earlier at 2,800 rpm. Peak boost is 11.9 psi. The five-speed transmission has less aggressive ratios in 1st through 3rd gears, but the final drive is shorter: 3.90:1 instead of the former 3.70:1. (more)

Messages Page 10 of 13

#82 of 121 Re: Subjective measures [ateixeira] by rsholland

Jul 27, 2007 (12:58 pm)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 27, 2007 12:35 pm)
More lazy journalism: "Subarus are ugly, have always been ugly, and always will be ugly."
 
With the possible exception of the Legacy sedan, you can pretty put money on auto journalists referring Subaru's as being ugly. It's been going on so long, that this response is a given. It's nothing more than a knee-jerk trained response, much like playing frisbee with your dog. You know he's going chase it, as the dog's been trained to do so.
 
Most auto journalists wouldn't recognize or understand good design if it hit them square between the eyes on the end of a 2x4. If Subaru's design is the least bit daring it's called ugly. If Subaru's design is safe and conservative, it's called bland.
 
The bottom line is—if enough journalists keep repeating it, and if enough readers pick up on it—it must be true, right? Wrong!
 
Bob

#83 of 121 Re: Subjective measures [rsholland] by ateixeira

Jul 27, 2007 (1:21 pm)

Replying to: rsholland (Jul 27, 2007 12:58 pm)
I tend to shy away from these debates on styling, as I realize my opinion is just that - my own subjective thoughts.
 
Most people seem to like the 5 door yet I prefer the sedan. I don't find either beautiful, and yes it looks like a Mazda3 (which I like) and a BMW 1 series (which is too tall and dorky looking).
 
Yet people say those cars look good, and the same folks criticize the WRX!
 
This is dorky:
 

 
It's too tall, the proportions are off. The headlights are too big. Not a single line in the face matches up with the next.
 
Yet it's a BMW so people are drooling over it.
 
To me, I'd rank it this way:
 
Mazda3 > WRX >> BMW 1

#84 of 121 Styling by stevecebu

Jul 28, 2007 (12:46 am)

My gosh you mean there is a right and wrong when it comes to styling?
I thought cars were styled differently to appeal to the needs and desires of buyers. Not everyone will like the look of every car for me that's a given. What I as an individual like for style is up to me. If I am a car maker or the style and design guy in charge of a certain model or all the models then I have significant influence over the style. But right and wrong with style? Ugly to me and beautiful to you or vice versa, so what?
car reviews are nothing more than the opinion of one writer or sometimes a collaborative effort by several writers to get a well rounded opinion.
but it's still an opinion and no one has to agree with any one writers opinion.
Cars evoke passion in many people and many take offense quickly if their brand of car gets a low review and they take it so personally.
I am not going to be able to convince anyone that what I like it the best and change their opinion usually. Nor are they likely to convince me I am wrong about subjective issues like style and looks.
You can't pry my father out of his Buick Lesabre, he'd hate the ride of a BMW and he won't buy a Japanese car ever, no matter how good it rode.
Hey it's his choice and no one has changed it as far as I know so now that he's in his 80's, he won't change his mind.
The 2008 WRX has "love it or hate it" looks. But when it comes time to buy a WRX or any car for that matter and you are plunking down your hard earned for whatever brand and model it is, just be happy with it since you are paying for your opinion with your own money and that says a lot.

#85 of 121 Re: Styling [stevecebu] by rsholland

Jul 28, 2007 (7:44 am)

Replying to: stevecebu (Jul 28, 2007 12:46 am)
My gosh you mean there is a right and wrong when it comes to styling?
 
You're completely missing my point. I have no disagreement that one is entitled to their opinion as to what they like in terms of styling. You and I area perfect example of that. I don't agree with you at all in terms of your assessment of the new Impreza's styling, but it's your opinion, and I respect that.
 
No, the point I'm making is that long ago—when Subaru was making some truly ugly cars—the notion evolved among auto journalists (and rightly so) that many Subarus were ugly, and that they have a history of making unfortunate looking cars. Again, I have no argument with that.
 
The argument I "do" have is that very few auto journalists have any background in design, any true understanding of design, and are therefore not qualified to comment on design—yet they do it all the time. Readers, who respect the journalists objective comments and expertise about the the vehicles performance, often assume that their (the journalists) comments on design are also spot on. That couldn't be further from the truth.
 
The other point I'm making is that this Subaru-only-makes-ugly-cars attitude has been going on so long with the auto press, that it's an assumed "given." No matter what Subaru has designed, or will design, it will always be ugly in the eyes of much of the automotive press. It's a conditioned, Pavlof-like response, with little or no exploratory thought involved.
 
The Legacy sedan is a pretty handsome vehicle, yet rarely do you hear any journalists praise the styling. Whatever is said about that model's looks, is usually just done in passing. I bet that if Subaru ever comes out with a coupe that looked as graceful as the Infiniti G37, you can bet the auto journalists will find something negative to say about its looks.
 
Bob

#86 of 121 Re: Styling [rsholland] by stevecebu

Jul 28, 2007 (11:03 am)

Replying to: rsholland (Jul 28, 2007 7:44 am)
The argument I "do" have is that very few auto journalists have any background in design, any true understanding of design, and are therefore not qualified to comment on design—yet they do it all the time. Readers, who respect the journalists objective comments and expertise about the the vehicles performance, often assume that their (the journalists) comments on design are also spot on. That couldn't be further from the truth.
 
I think that point is irrelevant. Journalists are writers not design engineers. They are basically spokespeople for the car industry for consumers. If they talk over the heads of their customers, you know the non-enthusiasts who buy a car because consumer reports says it's good and gives it a lot of red circles. Some magazines are better than others but in the end it's all just one guys opinion. I mean my wife ad I love watching Top Gear eps! Clarkson is a effing Riot to watch and these guys are all journalists and none of them are diehard car stylists or engineers. Just because you have a degree in this stuff doesn't mean their opinion isn't valid.
Clarkson can be an absolute wanker but funny as hell and when he pans a car it for sure will affect that makers sales.
Ever see the ep where the producer of the show bought a Porsche Cayman? He said well it's like Boxster with a roof so really it's a coxster. Then he blasted it 7 ways to sunday until the producer said enough! enough! and cut him off at mid sentence. But almost 10 minutes of lampooning the poor car.
The car editors do have a lot of influence over the market whether or not they have a degree in anything other than writing and it's just the way it is. I know what to pay attention to and I know some magazines are horribly biased. But some are pretty close on with what i think like Edmunds, so I trust their opinions more than maybe someone else's.
It's not a prefect world and I've known a lot of guys that could work miracles on a car, but couldn't write for squat.
 
As far as all subaru's being ugly? Never heard it voiced in a very negative way like that. Mine was muscular and worked for me. The new one is kinda bland and effeminate.
But some guys like that vague look or think it's a good look having the design that way. Either way as I said no matter what brand or car it is. You vote with your wallet something most of the magazines do not do. Yes, long term testers for a year, ok, but most cars are press vehicles and that gives us an idea if we want to check it out for ourselves. but when we buy a car we are saying in essence. We have enough confidence in your product to layout $XX,XXX dollars for it.
Most car buyer might know nothing about design, but they know what they like. no matter how great the design is, if it doesn't sell then the design wasn't very good. if it sells a lot then it was good. It's all about the numbers and money as was mentioned before.

#87 of 121 Re: Subjective measures [ateixeira] by aaykay

Jul 28, 2007 (11:45 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 27, 2007 1:21 pm)
For whatever reason, the BMW hatch shown above, has an overall appearance very similar to the new WRX. Except for the larger overhangs in the WRX and the BMW grill in the beemer's front.

#88 of 121 Re: Styling [stevecebu] by rsholland

Jul 28, 2007 (12:44 pm)

Replying to: stevecebu (Jul 28, 2007 11:03 am)
no matter how great the design is, if it doesn't sell then the design wasn't very good. if it sells a lot then it was good. It's all about the numbers and money as was mentioned before.
 
Again we disagree.
 
There have been a number of great car designs that haven't sold, or have been failures in the marketplace (Studebaker Avanti). Does that mean the car's design was bad. Nope, not one bit. There could have been a multitude of reason why it failed. Maybe the design was way ahead of what the market was ready for (Chrysler Airflow), in that the timing was all wrong. Maybe the car looked great but was miserable in terms of realiabilty (Jag XK-E).
 
You seem to base everything on numbers and dollar figures. There's far more to life than pure numbers; although I have my doubts I'll every be able to convince you of that, as we seem to speak a different language here.
 
Bob

#89 of 121 Re: Subjective measures [aaykay] by ateixeira

Jul 30, 2007 (10:29 am)

Replying to: aaykay (Jul 28, 2007 11:45 am)
I see the resemblance, too, especially from the profile.
 
This is what Bob was hinting at, though. The BMW will be considered attractive yet the Subaru will be called ugly, even wearing the same styling cues.

#90 of 121 Re: Styling [rsholland] by stevecebu

Jul 30, 2007 (3:08 pm)

Replying to: rsholland (Jul 28, 2007 12:44 pm)
There have been a number of great car designs that haven't sold, or have been failures in the marketplace (Studebaker Avanti). Does that mean the car's design was bad. Nope,
 
I hope you aren't comparing the new WRX styling to an Avanti. The Avanti was an unusual car and is popular among some enthusiasts but it was a dog as far as sales go and there has been no shortage of posts in this forum about how Subaru is out to make money and I think their styling is going to hurt, not help them.
The Avanti and there was one for sale for a loooooong time in my area and no one wanted it.
It looked cool in a funky way. In this forum one guy says cars have no soul, another says style is everything and the new WRX looks great! For others it's about the great new interior and for others its about th performance.
Bottom line if a car model doesn't sell, the company will keep changing things until it does or until they drop the model.
Studebaker, for example how about Oldsmobile see ay new ones lately? how about Plymouth? Lots of models die and go by the wayside. The impreza is no different than any other car. They ticked me off with cheapening the car in performance. But they did make the base model a lot more desirable.
You WILL see changes to the body and or interior if sales fall off. For me Mitsubishi has done an awesome job with the new body style of the Lancer and the EVO looks damn nice as well. But it's March release date kills my chance of buying an EVO. My wife thinks she might like a base Impreza 2.5i as it's got AWD and is only $2K more than a Honda Fit.
The car actually looks better without the cheap looking hood scoop and the use of regular fuel is good as well. The extra 50HP is not worth $6K more and needing Premium fuel.
The looks are bland but For me I can wait to but a diesel which is what I really want and she can have anything under $20K. She doesn't really like the look either but it will be less to insure and that's good.
But they will restyle it and unless we can get it as a full base model with no options tacked on then it's a possible purchase. The WRX not a chance, it's ugly and far overpriced for the money.
I decided I won't buy one. When/if Subaru gets it's act together then maybe unless I have converted to Mitsubishi.
But style, for sure beauty is in the eye of the beholder and I'd rather not have to behold the new WRX any more than I need to.
Have fun convincing the Avanti fans that their car is comparable to a new WRX, bring sure to bring pics of the WRX.

#91 of 121 Re: Styling [stevecebu] by rsholland

Jul 30, 2007 (5:51 pm)

Replying to: stevecebu (Jul 30, 2007 3:08 pm)
Have fun convincing the Avanti fans that their car is comparable to a new WRX, bring sure to bring pics of the WRX.
 
Don't put words in my mouth. If you're going to quote me, use the full quote, and not just a small sound bite in which you can twist and turn to your delite.
 
There have been a number of great car designs that haven't sold, or have been failures in the marketplace (Studebaker Avanti). Does that mean the car's design was bad. Nope, not one bit. There could have been a multitude of reason why it failed. Maybe the design was way ahead of what the market was ready for (Chrysler Airflow), in that the timing was all wrong. Maybe the car looked great but was miserable in terms of reliability (Jag XK-E).
 
That's what I said—and nowhere did I compare the Avanti's styling to the WRX, which you're implying. With each succeeding post you're losing whatever little credibility you had here. You continue to beat a dead horse, and you continue to ignore everyone including the moderators here to move on.
 
Bob

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