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Article Comments - 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX First Drive & Full Test

121 messages,  Last post on Sep 13, 2007 at 9:15 AM

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What is this discussion about? Subaru Impreza WRX STi, Sedan, Wagon

Article comments for
 
First Drive: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX - Now that Subaru has abandoned its flirtation with the big-grille design ethic that has changed the look of so many cars in the last five years, its designers have gone for something more mainstream. (more)
 
Full Test: 2008 Subaru Impreza WRX - Power delivery is improved, as peak power of 224 horsepower comes 400 rpm earlier at 5,200 rpm, while peak torque of 226 pound-feet arrives 800 rpm earlier at 2,800 rpm. Peak boost is 11.9 psi. The five-speed transmission has less aggressive ratios in 1st through 3rd gears, but the final drive is shorter: 3.90:1 instead of the former 3.70:1. (more)

Messages Page 9 of 13

#72 of 121 0-60 vs 0-60 by ronin5

Jul 26, 2007 (4:15 am)

Replying to: mugwomp (Jul 25, 2007 8:37 pm)
Almost nothing to do with anything, but since we are down this thread...
 
I wonder if testers really compare 0-60 across segments in the same way. For example, if getting best times with the wrx involves revving to 5k and then clutch popping, are we really testing the camry the same way (or at least to the point where tire spin is minimized before dropping into Drive)?
 
Shut my mouth, but I gotta say it... I wonder how the camry v6 does vs wrx, not from a dig, but from a 5-60 (ie, you are trying to beat the other guy where 2 lanes are merging into 1)?

#73 of 121 Re: 0-60 vs 0-60 [ronin5] by ateixeira

Jul 26, 2007 (7:26 am)

Replying to: ronin5 (Jul 26, 2007 4:15 am)
An excellent question. One that brings up an important point I'd not thought about yet.
 
The 2GR-FE engine from Toyota has an interesting dual intake path. By default only one is open, but past 30% throttle a vacuum tube linked to the throttle position sensor opens up a 2nd intake path.
 
That makes it more quiet at low RPMs, a priority for Camry buyers. A higher priority than throttle response or peak power. Remember that important point.
 
So, in the scenario you describe, i.e. 5-60, starting at 5mph loafing along in a silent Camry, you stab the gas, and you will feel a noticeable hesitation.
 
You hit the throttle. The TPS sends the signal via vacuum pressure, once enough pressure is established, the 2nd intake path is opened. After a bit of hesitation, the Camry makes full power.
 
From a 0-60 start, you will not notice the hesitation, because with a brake-torque start your throttle is already past the point that triggers the 2nd path to open. No hesitation in that scenario.
 
Here is a photo of the two paths. Note the smaller path, #1, is the only one used by default.
 

 
There is a well documented mod were you can re-route the vacuum tubes to leave path #2 open all the time, one which I've actually done myself on my Sienna, same engine and all.
 
Most Camry buyers will not do this, however, as this increases intake noise slightly.
 
Thus, quietness is more important than acceleration to a Camry buyer, at least that's how Toyota targets them.
 
And this is exactly why the Camry should not be the car we're comparing to a WRX in the first place!

#74 of 121 Re: Responses [ateixeira] by ronin5

Jul 27, 2007 (2:52 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 24, 2007 8:33 am)
>And ronin5 should know better than to compare 0-60 from one publication to another. C&D always gets the lowest 0-60 times.
 
Fair enough. Now that C&D has the full road test of the new wrx up, we can do an apples-to-apples 0-60 comparison by C&D's standards:
Camry V6 auto: 5.8 seconds
wrx: 5.8 seconds
 
So your mama may not pull ahead of you, but she can wave over at you as you are frantically rowing thru the gears.
 
5-60? See ya.
 
And believe it or not, one of the reviewers at C&D also brings up "Camry" in the same sentence as the 2008 wrx.

#75 of 121 Re: Responses [ronin5] by stevecebu

Jul 27, 2007 (3:11 am)

Replying to: ronin5 (Jul 27, 2007 2:52 am)
And believe it or not, one of the reviewers at C&D also brings up "Camry" in the same sentence as the 2008 wrx.
 
Don't worry, it's only a problem when I say it. If anyone else says it including several well known magazines that's ok too.
I never said I'd left but I really don't post in this forum anymore since I caused people enough grief that they complained to the moderators and had my posts removed.
 
I hope the new WRX sell really well and I'm sure it will have more road feel than a Camry. The Camry offers alot of comfort and a class leading disconnection from the road.
The WRX will probably make you feel more like you are driving it than steering it. For the extra money it ought to. :
Well I'm back to lurking rather than posting as I don't want to stir up anymore arguments or do anything that would cause problems for the members of this group by disagreeing with them or comparing a $25K Accord or $25K Camry to a $25K WRX. Because they are not the same at all, just the prices are the same and are not really comparable
in any other way, or so I've been told.

#76 of 121 Re: Responses [stevecebu] by rsholland

Jul 27, 2007 (6:08 am)

Replying to: stevecebu (Jul 27, 2007 3:11 am)
The moderators "moderate" these threads without any input from us. That's their job. If anyone directly complained to them, which is certainly possible, I'm not aware of it.
 
Bob

#77 of 121 Re: Responses [rsholland] by stevecebu

Jul 27, 2007 (7:22 am)

Replying to: rsholland (Jul 27, 2007 6:08 am)
The moderators "moderate" these threads without any input from us. That's their job. If anyone directly complained to them, which is certainly possible, I'm not aware of it.
 
I was specifically told in email that they also respond to complaints as well, and that if you fell there is a problem to report it to them and they will look into it. Be that as it may, you don't see me posting in here any more which seems to make everyone happy.

#78 of 121 Re: Responses [stevecebu] by rsholland

Jul 27, 2007 (7:54 am)

Replying to: stevecebu (Jul 27, 2007 7:22 am)
Yes, they do, as I have complained before about some other posters in the past; not this time though. They also remove posts on their own, at their own discretion. If they see a negative trend appearing in any given thread, they take action. So if your posts were removed, don't automatically assume that someone here complained.
 
Bob

#79 of 121 Re: Responses [stevecebu] by ateixeira

Jul 27, 2007 (8:00 am)

Replying to: stevecebu (Jul 27, 2007 3:11 am)
it's only a problem when I say it
 
Oh my, that is *so* not true. You don't know me AT ALL if you say that.
 
You must have missed my entire saga of complaints against The Truth About Cars regarding the Tribeca. I'll leave it at that.
 
I call it lazy journalism. They can't find the right words, to they resort to hyperbole. "Drives like a Camry". Gimme a break.
 
I feel the same way when they complement certain German cars and say they have "soul". Excuse me? It's an inanimate object, folks. If the steering has good feedback, say so. If you can feel the texture of the road to get an idea of how much grip you have, say that, too. If you enjoy the soundtrack, fine, spell it out.
 
But it's just lazy to say a car has soul, or drives like a Camry, or feels like a poor man's [insert exotic car here].
 
I was in a VW thread and we were discussing why the Rabbit weighs more than other cars that compete in its segment. One person came out and said it was because the VW had "soul", so I asked him exactly how much that weighed.

#80 of 121 Re: Responses [ateixeira] by stevecebu

Jul 27, 2007 (11:58 am)

Replying to: ateixeira (Jul 27, 2007 8:00 am)
I call it lazy journalism. They can't find the right words, to they resort to hyperbole. "Drives like a Camry". Gimme a break.
 
But as has been pointed out to me many times in here in the past, most consumers know nothing about cars. They don't know or care what a LSD is. They understand things in simple terms and that is the people that Subaru is now marketing to.
So saying the new WRX is like a Camry is probably something that makes all the bigshots at Subaru smile and say ok, good press on that. Heck click on some of Edmunds videos and they claim to drive just like a Camry. I think it's a domestic or a Nissan or something.
No you cannot quantify soul. I won't get into a debate because in my mind you either see it that way or you do not. Who is right? Both
There are many definitions to describe things and even saying the new WRX is ugly well you can always say well why is it ugly what quantifiable measure do you use for ugliness? Etc...
Well ok you've got me on that one. But I sure know ugly when i see it and as far as sold goes, I understand the guys who use the term, really well. But very few cars nowadays have "soul"
i suppose it's an experiential, auditory, and haptic senses kind of thing that is difficult to describe so people just say soul.
ut car magazines being definitive? Not going to happen it's all subjective opinions and many will differ. This group prefers SubyTrojans second opinion view on the WRX over the first review as it is more positive than the first.
Ok, fine with me. I don't own any company stock (Sell! Sell!) in Subaru
I was passionate about the car, it had it's flaws but worked for me. Now we will drive a base model and a WRX as well. I see no point in the other models as they have the same engines, so for my purposes the Impreza will make it or break it on this purchase.
I'm going back 2 months earlier so we will see what deals can be had. I'm hoping for a leftover 2007 WRX wagon with no miles with a big discount on it.
I don't really want VDC so no loss for me there.
Anyway lazy journalism or not it sure tells people a lot when they say "It drives like a Yugo" or "grips like it's glued to the road"
Hyperbole, ok sure but it works for most people. If you are an engineer then probably not.

#81 of 121 Subjective measures by ateixeira

Jul 27, 2007 (12:35 pm)

I guess what I'm saying is that "soul" isn't as subjective as it seems.
 
We say a car has character but what we mean specifically is that we like the handling response, the steering feedback, the sounds we hear.
 
We might say it's rewarding to drive, but what we mean is it's easy to drive fast and brings a smile to our faces. It's forgiving at the limits and may even communicate what those limits are via pedal or steering wheel feel so that we don't exceed them.
 
I guess what bothers me about the use of the word "soul" is that too often magazine editors that show a bias towards european cars and tend to discriminate against asian cars and use that word as a scape goat, when they can't quite pin down what it is they liked better about it vs. the european car.
 
Example: Infiniti M vs. BMW 525i. The Infiniti will kill the Bimmer in every test yet they'll say it "lacks soul".
 
Why? Because 30 years ago they like the BMW Bavaria better than the Datsun 510? Does that really matter today?
 
To some it does, I suppose. I just call it lazy journalism.
 
I'd prefer to see them say the M45's steering felt overboosted and numb, no matter that it was quicker in the slalom. Or that skidpad grip was greater but it was harder to tell when that limit was approached before it was too late because you got little feedback from the tires.
 
Things like that I'd respect, at least.
 
When I read the "like a Camry" comment I just lose respect for the author.

Messages Page 9 of 13

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