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BMW 3-Series - AWD or RWD?

429 messages,  Last post on Sep 16, 2011 at 1:33 PM

You are in the BMW 3-Series Forum.

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Sedan, Wagon

Messages Page 31 of 44

#296 of 429 Buyer Beware by spiritinthesky

Nov 20, 2007 (6:12 am)

I concur with the suggestion that a prudent and thorough evaluation of the pros and cons should be made relative to everything from AWD, Sport Packages, transmission selection.
 
In the last two weeks, I've taken both of my cars in for their winter "check ups". while at the BMW dealer lounge, I spoke with a gentleman who had sprung for a new BMW M5 last year, now that he had put his last kid through college. He paid $90,000 for a car without so much as a test drive. Now he is cursing the SMG transmission which has had to be repaired and or reprogrammed three times in less than 8,000 miles. He had never driven anything but a manual transmission before, but assumed that BMW's SMG transmission, the only one offered at the time he bought, would be fine. He hates it and, when he saw my 2003 M5 keys being handed back to me, offered to trade me even up. I thought he was joking, but he insisted he wasn't. I declined.
 
Then, not 5 days later, I'm in for the same service on my 911TT and essentially, the same thing happens. Guy who bought a 911TT Tiptronic is in the service lounge sees my car being brought in to the bay area and starts complaining about the tiptronic transmission that he ostensibly bought so his wife could drive it. I said that that I thought it was a noble thing to do, wanting to be polite. He responded, "like hell" - they were in the process of getting a divorce and was going to have to sell the car. Claimed that the car wasn't the cause of their problems, but it didn't help that he didn't like driving an automatic and she never drove it, period.
 
As I was joking with the service manager about the guy's predicament, he mentioned that "a lot" of the buyers of the 911 Turbo Tiptronics complain about them after the purchase. Many buy based upon reading a one liner review that says "faster than a manual" and don't even go out for a test drive. Granted, not easy to do, but still a prerequisite, IMO, for buying a $135k car with a transmission you have never experienced. He said a nearly equal number buy the AWD "4" versions of 911's without test driving both and then complain that the "4" doesn't feel as nimble or quick as the RWD "2" they previously drove.
 
In todays marketplace, there is a BMW 3 series for just about aeverybody. Coupe, sedan, convertible. RWD, AWD. 328 or 335. Sport or standard suspension. Manual or steptronic. It really shouldn't be hard to find the one that is right for you, as long as you are willing to do your homework.

#297 of 429 Re: Buyer Beware [spiritinthesky] by circlew

Nov 20, 2007 (7:35 am)

Replying to: spiritinthesky (Nov 20, 2007 6:12 am)
Great story...and wise advice as usual. Perhaps that is why some houses and cars go on the market that do not seem to make any sense. You can't "cram" your way through life with little awareness and acting on pure emotion. Unless you are a Presidential candidate....
 
Thanks and regards,
OW

#298 of 429 Re: Click and Clack Weigh In [shipo] by unlimitedjoe

Nov 27, 2007 (9:49 pm)

Replying to: shipo (Nov 18, 2007 6:13 pm)
as i said before, tenths of a second either way, when it comes down to testing times on rwd & awd!
 
as for the rain, no comparing the two, advantage big on awd.
 
i own a rwd car, and trust me much more cautious in it when roads are wet.
 
better yet, next time it rains take an awd bimmer for a test run so you will understand the advantage of awd.
 
as usual in the rain, safe & fun driving gentleman.

#299 of 429 Re: Click and Clack Weigh In [unlimitedjoe] by circlew

Nov 28, 2007 (4:58 am)

Replying to: unlimitedjoe (Nov 27, 2007 9:49 pm)
UJ,
 
I agree on the added traction in the rain with my xi. My rwd Lincoln LS was much more dicey in the wet. The Michelin AS tires were not any help.
 
Regards,
OW

#300 of 429 Re: Click and Clack Weigh In [unlimitedjoe] by roadburner

Nov 28, 2007 (9:31 am)

Replying to: unlimitedjoe (Nov 27, 2007 9:49 pm)
better yet, next time it rains take an awd bimmer for a test run so you will understand the advantage of awd.
 
I drive my wife's BMW X3 truck every now and then, and while it handles OK, it is a somewhat less than entertaining drive. Like the xi sedans, the DSC fitted to the X3 is designed to step in early and save the clueless/inept from their ham-handed control inputs. Some people may want or need that safety net, but I'll pass. I will admit that I have a soft spot for the E30 325ix -especially for off-road or winter rallies- but that car was designed at a time when BMW assumed that their customers possessed at least a modicum of driving skills. I have never had a problem driving a RWD briskly car in the rain on the street or on the track, and I simply cannot understand why any competent driver would consider buying an AWD BMW if wet pavement is the most treacherous driving condition they will encounter. If I wanted an AWD performance car I'd be checking out the EVO X, WRX STi, RS4, and C4- depending on my needs and budget.

#301 of 429 Re: Click and Clack Weigh In [roadburner] by circlew

Nov 28, 2007 (11:05 am)

Replying to: roadburner (Nov 28, 2007 9:31 am)
I have never had a problem driving a RWD briskly car in the rain on the street or on the track, and I simply cannot understand why any competent driver would consider buying an AWD BMW if wet pavement is the most treacherous driving condition they will encounter.
 
It's the black ice that'll get you and in the snow, it's really a blast with AWD. Most drivers couldn't even keep up, let alone keep straight vs. trained track drivers, so AWD will help add overall traffic safety, IMO. Not many drivers plan to/have attended a CCA or similar driving program even once, let alone the multiple courses it would take to hone their skills in emergency maneuvers. Perhaps the US licensing program should add these level of driving courses/ class time before they hand out driver's licenses. It's more an ID system than the fact you know how to handle a particular vehicle.
 
It's a different sport feel/result, it's true, and I understand AWD will never replace RWD sportiness. It's just a different level of performance with the 335xi. It's a great all weather commuter ELLPS, not a pure sport performance sedan. That would have an "M" on it for BMW. The 335xi is no WRC car and wasn't intended to be.
 
Agree on your choices for performance alternatives completely. In fact, EvoX looks real good (if they loose the wing).
 
Regards,
OW

#302 of 429 Re: Click and Clack Weigh In [circlew] by roadburner

Nov 28, 2007 (11:25 am)

Replying to: circlew (Nov 28, 2007 11:05 am)
It's the black ice that'll get you and in the snow
 
Black ice gets everybody. If the coefficient of friction is zero, it doesn't matter how many driven wheels you have. As for the snow, AWD does provide an advantage, but not to the extent that I would give up any of my RWD cars. North Central KY just doesn't get enough bad winter weather- and if/when we do I can just drive the Wrangler or my wife's X3. And anyway, as I mentioned in another topic, I'm more worried about the brain dead morons sharing the road with me. If one of them takes out the Wrangler or the X3 it's no big deal, but I think I'd maim or kill anyone who damaged my Club Sport.

#303 of 429 Re: Click and Clack Weigh In [roadburner] by unlimitedjoe

Nov 28, 2007 (10:00 pm)

Replying to: roadburner (Nov 28, 2007 9:31 am)
howdy,
 
1) evo goes from 0 to 60 in 4.4 sec. fast, but to ugly for my taste.
2) wrx not as fast, but still ugly.
3) rs4 not much bang for my buck.( $69.000 for a 0 to 60 in 4.8 sec.)
4) c4, out of my league.
 
imho the 335xi is, very entertaining to drive. and with a few modifications ( say under $3000.) will have no problems competing with the likes of the above. ( except c4 )
 
what i like most about the 335xi ( besides being able to put down power.) is that its an ALL WEATHER-PLEASER and m3 fast, for an everyday drive sport sedan.
 
oh yea, i agree everyone should take a skip barber driving class, i did more then once, and found it expensive and well worth it!
 
so for me there is still no doubt, that the 335xi has a big edge when driving in the rain then the 335i or any other rwd sedan. and as far as the dry road drives, i will be either behind, right there, and yes even in front of the 335i rwd.
 
again, as usual for me,
 
safe & fun driving everyone!

#304 of 429 Re: Click and Clack Weigh In [circlew] by unlimitedjoe

Nov 28, 2007 (10:21 pm)

Replying to: circlew (Nov 28, 2007 11:05 am)
ow, i feel you under estimate the level, of the stock 335xi's sport performance ability. but maybe your right ( i don't beleive so.)
but in the case i couln't change your mind, maybe the boys at ac schnitzer or dinan might be able to explain the xi's ability more clearly then me.
 
Regards,
UJ

#305 of 429 Mathematical Analysis by habitat1

Nov 29, 2007 (4:26 am)

O.K., it's time for me to dust off my old math skills and come up with a formula that everyone can use for deciding between i and xi. Here it is my first cut:
 
X = (A * B) - (1-A) * C where
 
A = % of time you will be driving in inclement weather
B = Your percentage estimate of the improvement of AWD traction over RWD traction in inclement weather
C = Your percentage estimate of the advantage of RWD over AWD in dry/good weather driving enjoyment
If X > 0 (or 100%), get the "x"; if x
 
For me:
 
A = 15%
B = 150% - note, I am giving a 50% advantage to AWD in the inclement weather
C = 125% - note, I am "only" penalizing AWD half as much on dry pavement as its advantage above.
 
X = (15% *150%) - ((100% -15%) * 125%)
X = 22.5% - 106.25%
X = -83.75% or -0.8375: Get the RWD.
 
I have not added factors like fuel efficiency or the "peace of mind" that some would claim AWD provides even in good weather, if inclement weather is on the way or a possibility, etc. You can add the other factors and modify the formula.
 
But, what it does appear to me from reading the posts of others, is that "A" with the exception of some who live north of the border in Canada, is not that big of a number. And those that favor AWD either have a very big estimate of "B" or a very small estimate of "C", or both. Even when I stretch my own evaluations to giving AWD a 2 to 1 advantage over RWD in the inclement weather advantage vs. dry weather disadvantage, I come up with a number far below 0.
 
P.S. Some x proponents have even suggested that "C" is 100% or less. (i.e. AWD has an advantage over RWD even in dry weather / good conditions). I can't accept that, in a BMW 3 series, adding 200+ lbs, disrupting the nearly perfect 50/50 weight balance, and limiting the suspension stiffness is an advantage in dry weather. But that's why the formula is different for everybody.
 
Post your own numbers.

Messages Page 31 of 44

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