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#41 of 1068 Probably does
May 31, 2007 (11:14 am)
But capacity isn't the trick here. This is a very thinly veiled gift to the large agricultural conglomerates and once one crop has a known, high price everyone will get into the act.
I wonder if it's too late to plant?
#42 of 1068 Re: Probably does [fezo]
May 31, 2007 (11:23 am)
Another example of this kind of problem - Europe decided biodiesel was great, and there are palm trees that produce it, so guess what? Large tracts of rainforest in Indonesia cut down for palm trees. Ain't that eco-illogical! More about it here Palm Oil Disaster
#43 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h]
May 31, 2007 (11:32 am)
Glad Iím a scotch drinker. I like red wines also, oh and dark beers, Actually, Iíll drink most anything, but Iím trying cut back on the extracts and mouthwash
#44 of 1068 Law of unintended consequences
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
May 31, 2007 (11:55 am)
This push for ethanol is affecting a LOT more than fuel prices. If growers switch over to corn from other crops, those other crops are suddenly in shorter supply... you guessed it higher prices
How many O's are there in boondoggle??
#45 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h]
Jun 01, 2007 (6:15 am)
We cannot come close to producing enough corn to make the ethanol needed to satisfy the mandate. Until this latest boooooondoggle we did have a surplus of corn. We sold corn to other countries such as Mexico. They are probably planting corn so they will have enough to make tortillas. Tacos without tortillas are messy. Tacos without tequila are uncivilized. So our ethanol program has caused an International crisis.
We have ADM and Congress to thank for destroying the Tequila industry in Mexico.
I guess I better not drink any of my stash of Hornitos. It may be worth a fortune in a couple years.
#46 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [gagrice]
Jun 01, 2007 (6:55 am)
"I guess I better not drink any of my stash of Hornitos. It may be worth a fortune in a couple years."
You can put it up on Ebay!
#47 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [fezo]
Jun 01, 2007 (7:00 am)
There is a recent MIT study which I recall was authored by a female gradual student which consolidates "all" the previous studies regarding whether it costs energy to produce ethanol. It explains why some studies show that it costs energy, others that it saves energy. It's all in the assumptions and the specific processes used/theorized and how their energy-input/output is measured. Bottom line was apparently that ethanol can indeed save energy in some cases, via some processes. But not all.
All that said, I still have no doubt that Ethanol/FFV/CAFE in USA is an incredible scam which has resulted in huge increases in oil imports and lots more monster-SUVs on USA roads. Fwiw, Consumer Reports detailed this in a recent issue but did not mention the Tequila angle..
#48 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [elias]
Jun 01, 2007 (7:20 am)
"authored by a female gradual student" Other than the female part that kind of describes me as a student - "Hey, I'll get around to it!"
Sorry. Oh, it's a scam all right. Actually the Model T was likely the first of the flexible fuel vehicles. Ethanol was around then and indeed a Model T would run on it just fine. The reason people didn't use it was because gas was more economical. It still is but now we have a big government program designed to make believe it isn't.
As Dan Quayle once said, "It a question of whether we are going to forward to the future or past to the back."....
#49 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [fezo]
Jun 01, 2007 (7:36 am)
Another joke is NASCAR running ethanol. They have run alcohol mixtures in racing for a very long time. This is part of the GM FFV scam. I guess it sells E85 vehicles. You can drive a Suburban to work and feel you are doing your part to conserve.
#50 of 1068 Ethanol Works for Me
Jun 02, 2007 (7:32 am)
I cant believe all the bashing that goes on for a DOMESTICALLY produced fuel. I have been burning ethanol for the past 2 months in my 07 Silverado. Here in North Dakota, E85 is 2.40/gallon and gas is 3.24/gallon. Its a no-brainer. The Silverado gets 14.5-15mpg with E85, and around 16-17 with gasoline. Obviously we know it isnt the long-term solution, but hey its an ALTERNATIVE to the bending over that the oil companies are giving you people that bash ethanol and only run gas. Ethanol is a traded commodity on the Chicago Board of Trade. It is supporting this country's farmers and creating jobs HERE and not in the hell-hole middle east. Like I said, its not the long term deal but hey why not have another option other than gas. Cellulosic ethanol is on the horizon which is awesome, but the argument that food prices are increasing by 5-6% is BS, we as Americans have has the cheapest food in the world for the past 20 years, its about time that the producers actually start getting a fair price for what they produce, then maybe the government wouldnt have to subsidize farmers. Ethanol plants could still survive without the .50/gallon tax incentive also. Ethanol is trading for 2.17/gallon, the newer plants get 3 gallons for each bushel of corn, 2.17x3=$6.51, currently corn is at $3.83, DUH!!!!! Plus throw in the extra money earned by selling the DDG's to ranchers and it increases that margin. Its not doom and gloom, thats just what the oil companies want people to spread. Be a lil smart and lets not put all our bags in the NON-RENEWABLE basket, use your brains!