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The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol

1067 messages,  Last post on May 04, 2013 at 2:12 PM

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Messages Page 5 of 107

#38 of 1067 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h] by fezo

May 31, 2007 (12:00 pm)

Replying to: kirstie_h (May 31, 2007 11:52 am)
Hmmm I don't know. I have seen teh whole mess kicking up a lot of agricultural products as corn prices are guaranteed domestically and now we are growing less what and soybeans because the farm biz would rather grow a guaranteed price crop.
 
Now I've seen gas prices go up when oil prices go up which is a bit of a lag, but 8 years seems a bit of a stretch.

#39 of 1067 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h] by texases

May 31, 2007 (12:03 pm)

Replying to: kirstie_h (May 31, 2007 11:52 am)
Sad but true - read about it here: Agave out, corn in

#40 of 1067 Re: Using energy to create energy... [texases] by kirstie_h HOST

May 31, 2007 (12:10 pm)

Replying to: texases (May 31, 2007 12:03 pm)
Dang. Guess I'd better start getting my fill of margaritas before the price of tequila goes higher than gas prices (I guess it already is, gallon for gallon, but even I can't drink a gallon). Now that really IS an "inconvenient truth" for me
 
Interesting... I assumed that the US produced enough corn, or at least has the immediate capability to do so, to satisfy the ethanol-related demand.

#41 of 1067 Probably does by fezo

May 31, 2007 (12:14 pm)

But capacity isn't the trick here. This is a very thinly veiled gift to the large agricultural conglomerates and once one crop has a known, high price everyone will get into the act.
 
I wonder if it's too late to plant?

#42 of 1067 Re: Probably does [fezo] by texases

May 31, 2007 (12:23 pm)

Replying to: fezo (May 31, 2007 12:14 pm)
Another example of this kind of problem - Europe decided biodiesel was great, and there are palm trees that produce it, so guess what? Large tracts of rainforest in Indonesia cut down for palm trees. Ain't that eco-illogical! More about it here Palm Oil Disaster

#43 of 1067 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h] by jkinzel

May 31, 2007 (12:32 pm)

Replying to: kirstie_h (May 31, 2007 12:10 pm)
Glad I’m a scotch drinker. I like red wines also, oh and dark beers, Actually, I’ll drink most anything, but I’m trying cut back on the extracts and mouthwash

#44 of 1067 Law of unintended consequences by pf_flyer HOST

May 31, 2007 (12:55 pm)

This push for ethanol is affecting a LOT more than fuel prices. If growers switch over to corn from other crops, those other crops are suddenly in shorter supply... you guessed it higher prices
 
How many O's are there in boondoggle??

#45 of 1067 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h] by gagrice

Jun 01, 2007 (7:15 am)

Replying to: kirstie_h (May 31, 2007 12:10 pm)
We cannot come close to producing enough corn to make the ethanol needed to satisfy the mandate. Until this latest boooooondoggle we did have a surplus of corn. We sold corn to other countries such as Mexico. They are probably planting corn so they will have enough to make tortillas. Tacos without tortillas are messy. Tacos without tequila are uncivilized. So our ethanol program has caused an International crisis.
 
We have ADM and Congress to thank for destroying the Tequila industry in Mexico.
 
I guess I better not drink any of my stash of Hornitos. It may be worth a fortune in a couple years.

#46 of 1067 Re: Using energy to create energy... [gagrice] by fezo

Jun 01, 2007 (7:55 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Jun 01, 2007 7:15 am)
"I guess I better not drink any of my stash of Hornitos. It may be worth a fortune in a couple years."
 
You can put it up on Ebay!

#47 of 1067 Re: Using energy to create energy... [fezo] by elias

Jun 01, 2007 (8:00 am)

Replying to: fezo (May 31, 2007 9:07 am)
There is a recent MIT study which I recall was authored by a female gradual student which consolidates "all" the previous studies regarding whether it costs energy to produce ethanol. It explains why some studies show that it costs energy, others that it saves energy. It's all in the assumptions and the specific processes used/theorized and how their energy-input/output is measured. Bottom line was apparently that ethanol can indeed save energy in some cases, via some processes. But not all.
All that said, I still have no doubt that Ethanol/FFV/CAFE in USA is an incredible scam which has resulted in huge increases in oil imports and lots more monster-SUVs on USA roads. Fwiw, Consumer Reports detailed this in a recent issue but did not mention the Tequila angle..

Messages Page 5 of 107

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