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#36 of 1068 Using energy to create energy...
May 31, 2007 (8:07 am)
As gagrice pointed out it takes almost as much energy to produce ethanol as it has in the finished product. (This applies to corn ethanol. Sugar cane ethanol can be produced more cheaply.)
I'm not sure why but this kind of government provided wheel turning reminds me of an old joke -
A guy is watching as a government truck is driving along. Every so often the truck would stop. One guy would get out and dig a hole. Then the other guy would get out and fill the hole back in. This continued at regular intervals for some time until the guy finally asks what on earth they are doing. "We're planting trees. Can we help it if the guy that puts the tree in the hole is sick today?"
Ethanol production is a lot like that....
#37 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [fezo]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
May 31, 2007 (10:52 am)
This is unverified (by me), but just wondering if others have heard the same -
I was told be a co-worker yesterday that there may be a tequila shortage soon. According to him, agave takes about 8 years to raise properly, so given the (artificial & temporary?) demand for ethanol, Mexican farmworkers are abandoning & destroying agave crop in order to raise corn.
Sounds a bit suspect to me. Suddenly corn is more profitable than agave? Seems like with an 8-year turnaround, it would've been all along.
#38 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h]
May 31, 2007 (11:00 am)
Hmmm I don't know. I have seen teh whole mess kicking up a lot of agricultural products as corn prices are guaranteed domestically and now we are growing less what and soybeans because the farm biz would rather grow a guaranteed price crop.
Now I've seen gas prices go up when oil prices go up which is a bit of a lag, but 8 years seems a bit of a stretch.
#39 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h]
May 31, 2007 (11:03 am)
Sad but true - read about it here: Agave out, corn in
#40 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [texases]
by Kirstie@Edmunds HOST
May 31, 2007 (11:10 am)
Dang. Guess I'd better start getting my fill of margaritas before the price of tequila goes higher than gas prices (I guess it already is, gallon for gallon, but even I can't drink a gallon). Now that really IS an "inconvenient truth" for me
Interesting... I assumed that the US produced enough corn, or at least has the immediate capability to do so, to satisfy the ethanol-related demand.
#41 of 1068 Probably does
May 31, 2007 (11:14 am)
But capacity isn't the trick here. This is a very thinly veiled gift to the large agricultural conglomerates and once one crop has a known, high price everyone will get into the act.
I wonder if it's too late to plant?
#42 of 1068 Re: Probably does [fezo]
May 31, 2007 (11:23 am)
Another example of this kind of problem - Europe decided biodiesel was great, and there are palm trees that produce it, so guess what? Large tracts of rainforest in Indonesia cut down for palm trees. Ain't that eco-illogical! More about it here Palm Oil Disaster
#43 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h]
May 31, 2007 (11:32 am)
Glad Iím a scotch drinker. I like red wines also, oh and dark beers, Actually, Iíll drink most anything, but Iím trying cut back on the extracts and mouthwash
#44 of 1068 Law of unintended consequences
by PFFlyer@Edmunds HOST
May 31, 2007 (11:55 am)
This push for ethanol is affecting a LOT more than fuel prices. If growers switch over to corn from other crops, those other crops are suddenly in shorter supply... you guessed it higher prices
How many O's are there in boondoggle??
#45 of 1068 Re: Using energy to create energy... [kirstie_h]
Jun 01, 2007 (6:15 am)
We cannot come close to producing enough corn to make the ethanol needed to satisfy the mandate. Until this latest boooooondoggle we did have a surplus of corn. We sold corn to other countries such as Mexico. They are probably planting corn so they will have enough to make tortillas. Tacos without tortillas are messy. Tacos without tequila are uncivilized. So our ethanol program has caused an International crisis.
We have ADM and Congress to thank for destroying the Tequila industry in Mexico.
I guess I better not drink any of my stash of Hornitos. It may be worth a fortune in a couple years.