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The Inconvenient Truth About Ethanol

1067 messages,  Last post on May 04, 2013 at 2:12 PM

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Messages Page 103 of 107

#1020 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [gagrice] by galonga

Oct 31, 2010 (2:16 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Oct 30, 2010 4:03 pm)
Sorry, but again you are talking without a proper knowledge of the facts
 
The rainforest regions in Brazil harbour a fungus called Mycovellosiella koepkei which inhibits growth: so it´s just pointless to even try to grow sugar cane in the amazon, as you get poor results.
 
Just like there´s another called "vassoura de bruxa" which affects cocoa plantations and only lived in Ecuador.
 
And on the 9 energy thing it´s a WIDELY known fact: google a little.
 
And let me remind you that FLEX ENGINES ARE NOT ETHANOL ENGINES. I DO NOT SUPPORT FLEX ENGINES for the energy reasons you point out.
 
I firmly believe that ethanol is a PROVEN solution and if instead of talking about mileage and other nonsense, if PROPERLY adopted (and not the way it is done) it will SAVE american lives.
 
And I say save because we all know those poor troopers went to Iraq to get more oil.

#1021 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [morin2] by galonga

Oct 31, 2010 (2:18 am)

Replying to: morin2 (Oct 30, 2010 7:27 pm)
No, you have NOT.
 
Ethanol requires an ENTIRELY different engine with specs you do NOT have.
 
You just compared it with the same compression ratio and spark timing, and of course got WRONG results.
 
Again: ethanol engines are NOT flex fuel engines.

#1022 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [galonga] by gagrice

Oct 31, 2010 (6:03 am)

Replying to: galonga (Oct 31, 2010 2:18 am)
Again: ethanol engines are NOT flex fuel engines.
 
You are flat out wrong on the subject. The Cars sold in Brazil ARE Flex Fuel.
 
Even Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva has gotten behind the flex-fuel concept, here driving GM's first factory-produced car that runs on gasoline, alcohol or natural gas.
 
SAO PAULO, Brazil — If it wasn’t for the TotalFlex logo on the new Gol subcompacts leaving a sprawling Volkswagen plant, the shiny cars would be indistinguishable from millions already on the road across Latin America.
 
But these Gols and other models produced by Fiat SpA and General Motors Corp. have modified engines that, given the rising price of oil, are making Brazilians smile at the gas pumps. They run on gasoline, alcohol or any combination of the two and now represent nearly 20 percent of the new cars sold in Brazil.
 
With alcohol — also called ethanol — cleaner and selling at half the price of gas in South America’s largest country, Brazilians who have bought 200,000 “flex-fuel” cars since their launch last year say deciding which fuel to use is a no-brainer.
 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5829046/
 
March 8, 2010 in Ethanol
 
10 million FLEX FUEL cars sold in Brazil.
 
Almost all vehicles sold in Brazil are flex-fuel capable (up to 85% ethanol blends, E85) and some are even compatible with 100% ethanol (E100). Every gas station in the country sells E85 and almost all sell E100. This has all been accomplished without government subsidies. As the Brazilian sugarcane organization, UNICA, likes to boast, the industry is completely self sustaining at this point. I’ve written about all this in the past, but as a recap, Brazil’s ethanol success is documented in these statistics:
 
90% of all new automobiles sold are flex-fuel automobiles
100% of GM vehicles produced in Brazil are flex-fuel
 
http://gas2.org/2010/03/08/brazils-10-millionth-ethanol-flex-fuel-vehicle-hits-t- - he-road/
 
If you have any data that refutes the claim that Brazilian cars are Flex Fuel, feel free to post. So far all you have offered is your opinion. Which is fine as long as you can back it up with facts.

#1023 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [gagrice] by galonga

Oct 31, 2010 (6:23 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Oct 31, 2010 6:03 am)
As usual you are confusing things by throwing WRONG or UNRELATED data (like this case).
 
Brazil stopped selling PURE ethanol cars in 2007: 86% of the cars being sold today are FLEX and 0% are ethanol.
 
And that´s a HUGE mistake for the reasons I pointed out twice already.
 
That has NOTHING TO DO with ethanol engines being different and BETTER than the flex fuel crap that is available in Brazil and in the US today.
 
READ MORE: so far you´ve been beaten in all issued you raised

#1024 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [gagrice] by galonga

Oct 31, 2010 (6:28 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Oct 31, 2010 6:03 am)
Since it is obvious you have no idea the difference between a flex fuel and an ethanol ONLY car I will have to explain it, so you stop sending wrong or unrelated data.
 
Ethanol only cars CANNOT RUN ON GASOLINE. Their compression ratios are way too high for gasoline (14 to 1).
 
That ratio takes advantage of ethanol´s huge octane number (104), in order to give MORE POWER.
 
On the other hand, flex fuel cars CAN run on gasoline because their compression ratios respect gasoline (9 to 1)
 
You CANNOT purchase an ethanol car in the US: they do not exist
 
In Brazil they were made until 2007 and now only flex fuels are made instead: a huge mistake, as flex fuel cars are nowhere near as efficient as ethanol only.
 
GOT IT NOW? ANYTHING ELSE I CAN HELP YOU WITH?

#1025 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [galonga] by gagrice

Oct 31, 2010 (6:44 am)

Replying to: galonga (Oct 31, 2010 6:23 am)
Brazil stopped selling PURE ethanol cars in 2007: 86% of the cars being sold today are FLEX and 0% are ethanol.
 
That is what I posted. You were trying to claim that ethanol ONLY vehicles were being sold in Brazil. That went away a long time ago. Due to the volatile sugar cane market. Flex fuel vehicles offer the consumer an alternative if the price of ethanol becomes too expensive. When Brazil brings that huge oil field off shore on line gas may become cheaper than ethanol.
 
What you continue to try and avoid is answering the simple questions. How many Miles per gallon will the cars currently sold in Brazil get on the various fuels sold in Brazil. I would say if you pay $1 per gallon for E100 and $2 per gallon for gasoline, ethanol is a good choice. There is no free lunch. Ethanol does not pack the energy that regular gasoline does. And Gasoline does not have as much energy as diesel or biodiesel.
 
A vehicle designed to run on pure alcohol should be more efficient than a flex fuel vehicle. Just not as enticing to the people that could not get ethanol back in the late 1980s for their ethanol only vehicles. A fact you seem to want to avoid.
 
From 1979 to 2005 more than 5.6 million ethanol-only automobiles and light trucks were manufactured. The success of this first ethanol push was halted in the late 80s and early 90s, when sugar prices increased sharply in the international market, causing a reduction on local ethanol production which resulted in a severe shortage of ethanol supply in the country, forcing the government to import ethanol. As consumers queued at service stations, they lost confidence in the ethanol vehicles, and car makers cut their production, thus the industry declined.
 
http://alternativefuels.about.com/od/ethanol/a/ethanolinbrazil.htm

#1027 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [galonga] by morin2

Oct 31, 2010 (7:10 am)

galonga is an obvious shill of the ethanol industry - which survives only by massive infusion of our tax dollars while damaging our environment and our small engines, boats, and shortening the life of our automotive components.
 
I suggest that we stop feeding this troll. He seems to have inhaled too much of something - maybe ethanol.
 
The best way to handle such trolls is to ignore them.

#1028 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [morin2] by gagrice

Oct 31, 2010 (8:18 am)

Replying to: morin2 (Oct 31, 2010 7:10 am)
I guess you are right. It is tough educating people that think they know it all. The title of the thread should include "USA" as that is where it is a political SCAM. We don't have millions & Millions of acres of land suitable for growing Sugar Cane. We never will unless we conquer some country that does. That's an idea.

#1029 of 1067 Re: Too bad if the US chose a lousy solution [gagrice] by newdavidq

Oct 31, 2010 (9:05 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Oct 31, 2010 8:18 am)
At the risk of inciting golonga to more inane invective I must say that Petrobras is quite happy taking a $2 billion loan to drill offshore, using US technology, for the hated petroleum products which are responsible for the world wide prosperity enjoyed by billions of humans today. And where is the $2 billion coming from?
Regards, and Adios, DQ

Messages Page 103 of 107

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