Last post on May 01, 2008 at 11:50 AM
You are in the Honda Odyssey
What is this discussion about?
Honda Odyssey, Hyundai Entourage, Kia Sedona, Toyota Sienna, Car Comparisons, Van
#54 of 206 Re: What else does Hyundai have to do? [ateixeira]
Jun 07, 2007 (1:32 pm)
CR is heavily biased towards Totota/Honda and their luxury versions Lexus, Infiniti and Acura. There is no top pick from Hyundai in CR's 2005, 2006 or 2007 cars. In fact I was surprised not finding any american car either. In fact, consumer generated JD Power ranking gives a truer picture.
A car that earns the best safety score ever given to an automobile (Sedona/Entourage) by NHTSA, which has ESC and 6 airbags standard across all trim levels (ESC saves lives!!), has great warranty, roadside assistance (which is $1000 + with other makes), decent looks, good fit and finish and low price with abundant features deserves to be a top pick.
I am not saying Toyota and Honda do not deserve to sweep top honors, just give credit where it is due. I expected at least 1 Hyundai to make it to top pick list and was disappointed, to say the least.
#55 of 206 I Think
Jun 07, 2007 (5:53 pm)
That in judging the final rankings, CR doesn't weigh value as much as American consumers do.
Maybe they should do a "Best Buy" award, in addition to "Top Pick". Sometimes buyers aren't necessarily looking for the very best vehicle in that class, they want the best bargain.
I'm sure the deck in that case would be stacked towards most Hyundai/Kia models.
#56 of 206 Re: PM report on Kia Sedona [ateixeira]
Jun 07, 2007 (6:45 pm)
First, I was, of course, referring to comparably equipped vehicles. Second, I live in the South and have less than no need for AWD. Third, I have realized that Hyundai did me a favor in not offering a nav system, based on what I have read about dedicated nav systems in new vehicles. I purchased an aftermarket Pioneer system which looks like OEM and is upgradeable.
Who cares what a crossover SUV costs? You're paying premium price for those and for a truck frame.
I'm curious, for $25K did you get memory seats, power driver and passenger seats, tri-zone AC, thirteen speakers, tire pressure monitor, adjustable pedals, power side doors and power lift gate, sun roof, the 6 CD changer, power second row windows and power third row ventilation windows, DVD player among the things that come to mind most immediately? You get that and more for well under $30K with the Entourage. You don't get that for close to $30k in the Sienna.
#57 of 206 Re: PM report on Kia Sedona [hrngffcr]
Jun 07, 2007 (9:10 pm)
I agree. The japanese have proven their reliability, now you get to pay a premium for that.
"Crossovers" are based on a car frame.
#58 of 206 In Crossovers
Jun 08, 2007 (9:04 am)
you're paying a premium for AWD (okay, you could get a Sienna AWD, but still...) and the premium of not having to tell people "I drive a minivan."
#59 of 206 Re: PM report on Kia Sedona [hrngffcr]
Jun 08, 2007 (9:32 am)
I'm curious, for $25K did you get...
memory seats? no
power driver and passenger seats? driver yes
tri-zone AC? two zone, manual
thirteen speakers? did not count, stereo sounds good though
tire pressure monitor? yes, and the real one, not ABS based
adjustable pedals? no, but wheel tilts/telescopes
power side doors? yes
power lift gate? no, but there is a power assist to close it
sun roof? no
6 CD changer? yes, with control on steering wheels
power second row windows? yes
power third row ventilation windows? yes
DVD player? yes, but aftermarket, $900
The Sienna is equipped better than you seem to think.
I did look at an Entourage Limited, but that model did not include a moonroof or a 6CD changer, those only come in option package.
If you add both of those the Entourage costs a bit more than I paid, or about the same price as my Sienna + DVD player I had put in, and I got a 12" screen that makes the factory DVD screen look puny.
I test drove a loaded Kia Sedona, and it didn't have auto up driver's window, plus the Koreans do not offer an 8th seating position. So there's a couple of things I got that you didn't.
I also have a lot more horsepower and noticeably quicker acceleration, though the Kia was not lacking in any way. Sienna has more space, too, it felt wider and more substantial.
The Korean vans come very well equipped, but pick the right package with the Sienna and it's a better value than most people seem to think.
#60 of 206 Surprises on the Sienna
Jun 08, 2007 (9:39 am)
Hosts: can we please add the Toyota Sienna to the name on this thread? We seem to be comparing them directly, I know I drove pretty much all of these before deciding.
Funny thing is I only noticed some of these things after I bought it, but the Sienna has a few surprises up its sleeve. Even at the $25k price level, you can get:
* trip computer
* power vented 3rd row windows
* 3rd row position for tailgating (Ody lacks. Kia?)
* puddle lamps
* tow package included (ATF cooler)
* roof rack cross bars
* heated mirrors
* wiper de-icers
* auto UP driver's window
* 8 adult-sized seats (the only van that offers this)
The Ody EX lacks all but the mirrors and de-icers, I believe (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Not sure how many of those items the Entourage and Sedona offer, but at least a couple.
So in terms of content it's not quite as clear as people think. Toyota offers more value than you first might expect.
#61 of 206 Re: Surprises on the Sienna [ateixeira]
Jun 08, 2007 (11:05 am)
My Entourage Limited offers all that except 3rd row position for tailgating and I am not sure what that is and 8-seat option:
It offers though:
*Projector Headlamps (probably one of the nicest non-HID headlights along with GMC Acadia)
*Projector fog lights
*Heated seats with 5 settings
*Integrated memory system for seats, pedals and mirrors
*Digital tri zone climate control with cabin filter and air ionizer built in
*Auto dipping mirrors in reverse
*Active Head Restraints
*660W sound system with 2 subwoofers and 11 speakers (The only mainstream van that features a 7.1 Dolby Digital/Prologic7/DTS system) a treat for audiophiles
*5 years unlimited roadside assistance in continental US ($1000 value)
*Much longer warranty on powertrain, bumper to bumper or perforation ($1000 value over the 3yr/36K and 5yr/60K warranty)
*Better safety (remember 07 sienna fared poor in rear crash test conducted by IIHS)
The only thing we are missing is the 8th seat. And I paid 27,700 for mine, $1000 more than you. It just does not add up!! Similarly equipped the Sienna costs $6000 more even before you purchase a matching warranty.
The Sienna is a fantastic car, no doubt, but as far as value goes....?
#62 of 206 Re: Surprises on the Sienna [shaky4]
Jun 08, 2007 (11:31 am)
Sorry forgot to add:
*Electrochromic rearview mirror
#63 of 206 Re: Surprises on the Sienna [shaky4]
Jun 08, 2007 (11:37 am)
No doubt a comprehensive list of equipment. You also forgot to mention the electroluminescent gauge pod, which only the Limited models get.
We tried leather and actually preferred cloth. It's just more comfortable, softer and grippier, and breathes better. Funny thing was that limited what options we could get!
So I didn't want leather. Ideally I would have chosen heated cloth seats. Hyundai actually offers that combo in the SE model, so I probably would have gone that way had I bought a Hyundai - loaded up SE.
The power seat controls are ripped right from Mercedes-Benz, brilliant design. Is that the Mercedes lawyers on the phone over at Hyundai?
Sienna has the cabin filter too. And homelink. And a conversation mirror.
We got wireless headphones with our DVD player. To be honest, OE cannot beat aftermarket. My screen is 12", TWELVE inches. You're counting the number of speakers, so I can too.
12" means the viewing area is probably double, or even more, compared to stock. To be honest now that we're used to 12" the OE ones are totally unacceptable. We'd need binoculars to see those tiny screens.
As for roadside assistance, Costco Executive Members that get insurance through Ameriprise get that for free. Zero. So the value to me for that is $0.
For me, as in we're all different, our priorities vary. I wanted cloth. I really wanted a middle row with 3 seats (my wife watched The Sound of Music with the kids on our last road trip, so I'm sure she'd agree). With captain's chairs you can't do that, or you have to punish one of the kids by forcing them in to the 3rd row.
The seat was the deciding factor. We were buying for max space and 8 is more than 7.
I drove the Sedona, the 3.8l is torquey but if you sample the Toyota you will agree it is substantially quicker, plus gas mileage is actually a little better, and that is according to the EPA, CR, and even the trip computer on my test drives.
More power, less fuel is an important advantage I could not ignore.
I'll say it again - the 3.8l Sedona was fine, though.