Last post on May 01, 2008 at 12:50 PM
You are in the Honda Odyssey
What is this discussion about?
Honda Odyssey, Hyundai Entourage, Kia Sedona, Toyota Sienna, Car Comparisons, Van
#2 of 206 Re: 2007 Odyssey or Entourage? [mom2ian]
May 22, 2007 (7:29 pm)
My wife and I recently bought a 2007 Ody EX-L with RES. We are lovin it!
If you look at the comparisons of minivans the Ody is always on top except for the first year Toyota introduced the new Sienna. But the Hyundai keeps moving upward.
One thing I have observed is that the Odyssey is the Samsonite of minivans (although there's nothing that "mini" about them). Several years ago, some friends of ours bought an Ody. I watched Barbara's kids one day in our church parking lot as they played in the van. It was like you'd turned three chimps loose in the van. They rolled the windows up and down, up and down. She had the power doors - they opened them, closed them, opened them, closed them. They turned the steering wheel from lock to lock (yes, she'd left the engine running) until the tires ground up the asphalt beneath them. I think you get the picture. Anyway, I determined after watching Barbara's kids and then seeing how well her van held up that if I ever bit the bullet and bought a minivan, the Ody would be at the top of my shopping list.
One thing I would do is check out Edmunds True Cost to Own for each van. I haven't checked it myself, but my guess is that over the long haul, the Ody will cost you less, even though the initial purchase price is more. I'm guessing that in five years of ownership, depreciation alone will make the Hyundai cost almost as much if not more than the Honda.
#3 of 206 Entourage is by far the better value
May 22, 2007 (9:10 pm)
I have the Entourage Limited with ultimate package. In addition, I added an after market nav system with back up camera and IPod connector.
I believe you can make a better deal on an Entourage. For some reason they have not advertised them very well, and many people just make the knee jerk decision to buy a Honda or Toyota (and sometimes the Dodge/Chrysler) because that's what everyone else does.
As my van sits now, with everything you can get on a minivan (admittedly except for stow and go second row, which, with two car seats in the second row, I have no desire to have, and except for run flats, which I also have no desire to own at this point in their development) my Entourage was $3,000 to 4,000 less than a comparably equipped Honda, and $4,000 to 5,000 less than a comparably equipped Toyota. And I have a warranty which is years longer than either, from a company which has placed in the top three in customer satisfaction in the J. D. Power surveys (ahead of both Honda and Toyota).
Warren Brown, the car writer for the Washington Post has called the Kia Sedona the best value currently in minivans. The Entourage is, of course, the fraternal twin of the Sedona. Even though the Entourage costs a little more (we liked the looks better), it is still, by far, the best value currently in minivans (unless, of course, you just like to spend thousands more than necessary on a vehicle).
#4 of 206 true cost to own and depreciation
May 23, 2007 (5:27 am)
Thanks for making me aware of the "true cost to own" portion of this site. I didn't realize it existed and had to squint to find it on the home page.
Very interesting figures - especially first year deprecation. Ouch!! Honda was just over $4K and Hyundai was nearly $11K. Man, that hurts! Subsequent years were about even on depreciation but Hyundai came out 11 cents higher on cost per mile and roughly $8K higher total true cost to own. Very eye-opening.
I'm test driving a loaded Hyundai Limited this morning so we'll see if it's still in the running after an up-close look.
#5 of 206 Re: true cost to own and depreciation [mom2ian]
May 23, 2007 (5:31 am)
Anyway you look at it bottom line is still the bottom line. When all is said and done, many people have to purchase what will fit within their budget.
Good luck on your test drive.
#6 of 206 Re: Entourage is by far the better value [hrngffcr]
May 23, 2007 (5:32 am)
Thanks for your insight based on actual ownership of the Entourage. I am still quite torn between the two makes...mainly because you do certainly get more features for the money on the Hyundai. At my current dealer quotes it's a difference of about $700 between a loaded Entourage Limited and an EX-L Odyssey w/o Nav/RES. Interesting! I guess a test drive of both will help make the decision...I hope.
#7 of 206 Something to note
May 23, 2007 (6:12 am)
I just ran a True Market Value on Edmunds for an Ody EX-L w/o NAV/RES and a TMV for an Entourage Limited w/ ultimate package. For our area the Ody actually came in at $1450 less than the Entourage and that's with the $2500 rebate applied to the Hyundai. Add the RES to the Ody and you are about even.
On the Ody with RES the only usable options you'll give up to the Entourage are a power passenger seat (seldom used), backup sensors, and power adjustable pedals. The power pedals are not really an issue with a power driver seat and telescoping steering column on the Ody. Also the Ody includes carpeted floor mats as a standard feature - a $139 (invoice price) option on the Entourage.
If you're going to finance, Honda is offering 4.9% for 37-60 months or 2.9% for up to 36 months. When we bought our Ody I got it for $100 over invoice and 3.9% for 60 months. Additionally the dealer we bought from does not charge document fees as some others do.
I know I'm biased, but the Honda sounds like the better deal. ESPECIALLY if you think you might not keep it more than five years.
Again, good luck!
#8 of 206 Test drove an Ody EX-L NAV RES
May 23, 2007 (10:33 am)
(Excerpt from a test drive review from this past weekend)
We sat in an LX model first. The whole family really liked the plush, velvetty fabric on the seats. The model doesn't offer the 8th seat, or the power sliding doors, and a few other things high on our priority list, but the seats were great.
They pulled up the EX-L NAV RES and we immediately fell in love with the power sliding doors. Touch two buttons and both kids piled in just like that. Plus you can close them from the driver's seat. I think all day long, this simple feature was what we liked most.
I went to program the NAV, and it wasn't quite as intuitive as I expected. I'd heard great things about Honda's GPS systems, but this required use of buttons and touchscreen controls, and I'm used to touchscreen only. The voice was soothing and it re-calculated directions when I intentionally drove a different path effortlessly.
The screen also serves as a backup cam. I thought I would love it. Nope. Found that visibility was pretty good already, and I looked back to back up anyway. In fact I did not use the backup screen at all. That was a surprise. It would help to line up a trailer, sure, but it's not at all essential for basic parking and backing up.
The leather seats were a bit hard, 3 out of 4 of us found them *less* comfortable than the LX' cloth. That was a bummer. The driver's seat also had a lump in the lumbar support, even at the lowest setting. I was simply not comfortable in that seat, so right there I decided that would not be the model I got even if we did choose an Odyssey.
It drove well, riding far better than the Pilot, as I recall it, and handling decently for all its size and mass. I did sense some torque steer, but I wouldn't be driving a minivan in that manner, so I think here it's acceptable.
The engine was fine, and VCM was unnoticeable, doing its job quietly. Steering is Honda standard, i.e. way overboosted and a bit numb compared to what I'm used to. To be fair, I'm used to smaller, sportier vehicles.
The kids saw the DVD movie player, and that deal for that item was sealed. We will get one, regardless, even if we have to go aftermarket. They loved it.
The middle of the 2nd row is not very comfy. It's a seat for use in a pinch, not for a long trip. The armrests become the backrest, and it's just not wide enough for an adult. OK only in a pinch.
I really wanted better seats, though, so we then asked to check out a regular EX model, with cloth seats. I was disappointed to find cheap looking mouse-fur style cloth. I have no idea why they put plush velvet in the LX, and recycled peach fuzz in the EX. At least the seats were better than the leather in the EX-L, and the lumbar support did not bother me with the cloth. Odd, but the cheaper the van, the more I liked the seats.
Still, even though the fabric was a bit cheesy, we still left the dealership thinking the EX model was the best compromise for us. I say compromise because you can't get NAV or the RES with that model - you have to get the hard leather.
Internet price quotes run in the mid $26k range. Not too bad, but I'd need to add the DVD movie player and a portable NAV system, so with tax and those two things we're getting close to $30k.
It was informative and useful to drive it, because we established a benchmark.
I can't talk my wife into even trying a Hyundai, which is a shame. We have a Kia test drive offer for a free gift card so I may sneak her into a Sedona.
As for pricing, what I'm finding the Koreans do have a big price advantage, but make sure you compare apples to apples. I have seen Entourage Limiteds for $24,100 with freight included, but that model doesn't come with a moonroof or a 6CD changer, which Honda includes at the EX level and Toyota includes even at the LE level.
You do get a power tailgate for a price that's less than the EX from Honda or the LE package 3 from Toyota, and heated leather seats with memory, too, if you like leather.
I'm sure the $11k "depreciation" on the Hyundai is off MSRP, so it's not nearly as significant as you might think at first.
Let's look at an example. Sources are fitzmall.com and brownshonda.com, both no-haggle dealers local to me. I'm adding freight and processing fees to make them equivalent for comparison.
Sienna LE 8 pass package 3 MSRP $29,484, on sale for $25,539. So the no-nonsense price is $3945 off MSRP.
Entourage Limited MSRP $29,820, on sale for $24,200. So it lists for more, but you pay less. The discount is $5620. So the discount is nearly $1700 bigger.
Ody EX MSRP $29,290, on sale for $26,883. Your discount is only $2,407.
Going back to the Entourage, the discount off list price is $3,213 bigger. That explains a lot of the extra "depreciation". I put that in quotes because it's not the right term. It's actually the retail price minus the residual value, but nobody pays retail so it's not very meaningful.
And we haven't even begun to talk about the opportunity costs of investing the money you save.
Any how, buy what you love. It's worth paying more in the long-run for the Entourage if you like it better. You get all those extra features.
Or, if you prefer the Ody, buy it and know that residuals will be high, even if you pay more up front.
I'm shopping for all of these, and they all have compromises. It's pretty frustrating, actually.
#9 of 206 Entourage test drive
May 23, 2007 (11:18 am)
I test drove the Entourage Limited (w/ ultimate package) this morning and was, to my surprise, very impressed. Deep down I thought for sure the test drive would rule this vehicle out but it has now made our decision harder.
I'm used to driving a small, sport wagon w/ not much in the area of bells or whistles so the more "high end" features of the Limited were quite appealing to me.
A few things that jumped out at me...I found the driver seat leather to be soft and very forming to the body. Lumbar was perfect for my "bad" back. The vehicle drove so much like my small sport wagon and the turning radius blew me away! I found the dash controls easy to find and reach and I liked how the auto shift was lower on the middle console and out of the way of the radio.
I drove it on bumpy roads, railroad tracks and highway at 70mph+ and it didn't waiver. I found road noise to be average and visibility great. I was impressed with overall fit and finish, too. I had my infant son along so I didn't crank the sound system but I am curious to hear it when we return this weekend. I can't wait for my husband to drive this and see if he is as pleased as I was.
The only things that jump out at me at first glance that Honda does better (for my interests) are the second row capt. chairs sliding to form a bench, second row built in sunshade, and easier 3rd row seat fold-into-floor function. I had difficulty lifting the Limited's seats using their tether system - seemed to not be as smooth and a bit heavy.
We'll see. I guess we'll head to the Honda dealership within the next few days to give the EX-L a spin!
#10 of 206 Re: Entourage test drive [mom2ian]
May 23, 2007 (11:25 am)
Sounds good. We saw the Entourage at the auto show, but have not driven it yet.
#11 of 206 Re: Entourage test drive [mom2ian]
May 23, 2007 (12:56 pm)
I can understand your dilemma. I was in the exact same predicament last month. I almost signed on April 30 for an Odyssey EX-L with fog lights ($579 extra) = $28,579 + taxes + $250 fees. I searched reviews, read test drive reports, went to different dealerships to take closer look at cars ....
Eventually bought an Entourage Limited with Ultimate Package on 05/05/07 with floor mats, covered cargo bins ($33,995 MSRP) for $28 + taxes OTD.
Both Entourage & Odyssey are extremely fine cars. Sienna is overpriced according to me and their packages are extremely confusing. Also their interior styling is drab to me unless you opt for XLE and above. Also, the sienna engine bay is naked with hoses/wires/belts/fluids. You can see the road through the engine bay if you peep under the hood. That to me is pathetic for a $35K car!!
I like Entourage headlights, rear end looks, and value for money proposition. The Entourage projector headlights look awesome at night. I like Odyssey front end styling, handling, dash design and 3rd row seats better. The Entourage is actually slightly quiter at 70 mph (66 decibels) as compared to (68dB) in Odyssey.
Buy Odyssey if you keep your cars for 3 years or less. Otherwise go with Entourage and you could'nt be happier