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Automotive News & Views Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
1788 messages, Last post on Mar 03, 2009 at 2:18 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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if the union accepted changes that made GM profitable in a healthy economy, is that enough? For a significant number of people who feel betrayed by the D3 in some previous purchase, probably not. They don't care but some of us feel betrayed by the massive reliance on imported products due to what it has partly contributed to the fall of America. We all get to pick our poison by voting with our dollars to some degree. We also don't get to pick our poison because our gov't votes with some of our dollars for us, even if they have to print those dollars from paper. So do we turn against our gov'ts's attempt to retain D3 and offshoot employment and keep voting against our country with our dollars? If my next new car is a GM, it will be my 7th new one. |
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Replying to: joem5 (Mar 01, 2009 8:24 am) This reminds me of what Lincoln said about Grant when they complained that Grant was a drunk. He said something like "Send my other generals whatever he's drinking" If a car has personality, good looks and is exciting to drive, it doesn't have to be the best car in the world. If that were necessary, Ferrari wouldn't have pre-sold every car it has made for the past 10 years or so. MINI is really fun to drive, and it's built like a little bank vault. It's fast, cute and has an amazing resale value. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I had the extra cash. Scion? The Big Three should be so lucky as to have built such an awful car as the Scion xB.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 01, 2009 9:20 am) So you are saying it isn't quality? Then what matters? It shows BMW and Toyota "can" build quality but for some reason they decided to cut back on Scion? After all the survey was taken from Owners and simply put on paper. If we all agree the Hummer is a law quality vehicle then we have to conclude the same for any vehicle the owners rate as poorly shouldn't they? So it all comes down to huffing and puffing. Some of us have a personal preference and will stand by it even if everyone else disagrees. There are those in these forums that swore the Subaru Baja was a good idea. They just knew the Echo would sell to the youth market. Didn't happen but they stuck with it till the very end. Now we hear that people will not switch from Japanese cars because they were betrayed by the domestics? And out of the same side of their face they hope for the return of the French and the Italians? Huffing and Puffing IMO. The question was do we need our own automakers? As a country we have to answer that question. gagrice has a valid point that could modify the question to do we need the costs of the UAW? But we need our own industries far more now than we need to support someone elses industries. As it was said during the election it is the economy. In this economy we may need to get rid of some of the costs of the UAW. But we need to support our economy far more than we should support Japan"s or Germany' s.
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Replying to: joem5 (Mar 01, 2009 8:24 am) And yet you just did. If you are touting a law firm, then yeah, an ad post will get booted. China has decided it doesn't need so many automakers. 10 major ones will do, instead of the current 14 major ones and 100+ minor ones. China's Auto Bailout Takes a Different Route (Time) |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Mar 01, 2009 10:31 am)  But let's say for argument's sake that the Scion was no better than say...a Pontiac. Yes, I would say quality is not in direct proportion to success, all by itself. The Big Three need to do more than just build better cars...they need to build more *appealing" cars. Say what you will about the Scion xB, people loved them then and love them now. If somehow you could plot a graph on the relative relationship between people loving their cars and reliability, I don't think the relationship would be all that strong. A car is, after all, not only transportation but a projection of dreams, desires, status, aspirations, aesthetics, etc. In other words, the Big Three could top the charts in reliability and still fail....yes.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 01, 2009 10:37 am) A car has no soul. It will run just as well or just as bad for someone that steals it as it did for the owner. It doesn't care how much you love it when it breaks down. It is a tool and nothing more. It will fail on you no matter how much you plead at the worst possible minute and so dependability has to count for more than something. As far as loving the xB people loved the Baja and they hardly even put them up for resale. Still a dead duck. If a car represented hopes and dreams to more than a hand full of people cars dealers would be hurting. As is demonstrated by the decline in car sales during this bad economy. If they had to be exciting then Camry and Accord Sedans wouldn't out sell coups. The Italians made some very sporty cars as did the French and they were driven from these shores. I will conceed they can be attractive and even a work of art. The xB is not however. 
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Replying to: boaz47 (Mar 01, 2009 11:02 am) Can you even point to a modern automobile ad that does not portray a dream, aspiration or aura of status and/or personal identity? People's idea of beauty covers a wide range. Ever been to a dog show?
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 01, 2009 10:37 am) Sure, once you modified it. My sister bought the Mazda3 of the Corolla because she said the Toyota felt "tippy." As a bonus (in addition to the sway bars), she got rear disc brakes and a decent tire. Sounds like about what you had to do to get your Scion to be "satisfactory."
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Replying to: boaz47 (Mar 01, 2009 11:02 am) If people really felt that way, everything would come down to cost, and the '05 Taurus would still be the top selling car in the US. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 01, 2009 11:43 am) I was reminded of that every time I used to go to Scorekeepers in Ann Arbor.
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