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Automotive News & Views Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
1788 messages, Last post on Mar 03, 2009 at 2:18 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 28, 2009 8:04 pm)
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The UAW could build the Mini. Heck the Koreans could build it. It was rated less dependable than Chrysler and Subaru and just above chevy and Hummer in dependability by JD Powers last year. It seems as if BMW didn't put as much effort in it as they did the main brand. But a niche vehicle doesn't have to sell well only sell what they made. Toyota's Scion wasn't very bullet proof for a Japanese car by coming in under Hummer in dependability. Something is happening to the companies we used to trust and they don't have the UAW to blame. Thank goodness VW, KIA and Suzuki are still on the bottom. I was beginning to worry they migh move up on the list after all these years. Do they have the UAW? But I will agree the burden of the UAW is a hard one for the domestics to get by. Still if we assume we don't need the domestics anymore doesn't it follow we should get rid of anyone doing worse than they in dependability?  You know when it is all said and done it doesn't make a big difference one way or the other. Korea wouldn't let Kia die and all but forced Hyundai to buy them out. Something about not allowing a monopoly of only having one company in the country. Nissan should have folded but was saved by Renault. Subaru almost fell apart in the late 70s. Japan didn't need either of those companies. The key word was need. Hyundai isn't putting a full faith effort in improving Kia or Kia would be built as well as Hyundai. we simply have too many manufacturers in the world as it is and sooner or later, maybe quite a bit later there are only going to be five or six companies in the world. The US may or may not be part of that but that is just how things are. However I believe the new administration will come to the domestics aid and we all will be share holders in a government car company. Like it or not. 
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 28, 2009 8:04 pm) We got an HHR a couple of trips to CA ago. It took 2.5 people worth of cargo plus a dog in a crate. I got in the car in the middle of the night (we had the 9pm Spirit flight from DTW to LAX) and had no trouble figuring out where everything was, turned the key and made the 2hr drive up the coast. I was surprised at the visibility, the windows seemed small but I felt like I could see very well, it might be a combination of the higher seating position and the huge mirrors. Oh, and it had a good turning circle (important when I got lost coming out of the BK driver through at 1 am). The biggest complaint I had about it was that it was filthy, and had it been daylight I never would've accepted a car that had that many stains inside. I also didn't find it very sporty, but compared to a PT Cruiser it felt better constructed, it felt more responsive then a Vibe (especially the automatic), and the Focus wagon is gone. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Feb 28, 2009 11:35 pm) |
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There are so many complaints on Edmunds about the quality of the MIni and all it's problems especially with its tranmissions,yet Edmunds sings it's praises and won't allow talk of a class action suit.BMW may own Mini,but the British build them. You ever own a MG. It took Mazda to get it right with the Miata,enough said. The Ford Fiesta if it's the one that's being driven in Europe I'd have to see it in action in this country . I question any American cars realiability. I'm of the lost generation to Japanese cars.I donot blame the wokers on the line,but the white collar workers who only care about the bottom line and not the "build" Most American cars are planned obsolesence compared to the Japanese. Spyder keep up the good work.
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if the union accepted changes that made GM profitable in a healthy economy, is that enough? For a significant number of people who feel betrayed by the D3 in some previous purchase, probably not. They don't care but some of us feel betrayed by the massive reliance on imported products due to what it has partly contributed to the fall of America. We all get to pick our poison by voting with our dollars to some degree. We also don't get to pick our poison because our gov't votes with some of our dollars for us, even if they have to print those dollars from paper. So do we turn against our gov'ts's attempt to retain D3 and offshoot employment and keep voting against our country with our dollars? If my next new car is a GM, it will be my 7th new one. |
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Replying to: joem5 (Mar 01, 2009 8:24 am) This reminds me of what Lincoln said about Grant when they complained that Grant was a drunk. He said something like "Send my other generals whatever he's drinking" If a car has personality, good looks and is exciting to drive, it doesn't have to be the best car in the world. If that were necessary, Ferrari wouldn't have pre-sold every car it has made for the past 10 years or so. MINI is really fun to drive, and it's built like a little bank vault. It's fast, cute and has an amazing resale value. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if I had the extra cash. Scion? The Big Three should be so lucky as to have built such an awful car as the Scion xB.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Mar 01, 2009 9:20 am) So you are saying it isn't quality? Then what matters? It shows BMW and Toyota "can" build quality but for some reason they decided to cut back on Scion? After all the survey was taken from Owners and simply put on paper. If we all agree the Hummer is a law quality vehicle then we have to conclude the same for any vehicle the owners rate as poorly shouldn't they? So it all comes down to huffing and puffing. Some of us have a personal preference and will stand by it even if everyone else disagrees. There are those in these forums that swore the Subaru Baja was a good idea. They just knew the Echo would sell to the youth market. Didn't happen but they stuck with it till the very end. Now we hear that people will not switch from Japanese cars because they were betrayed by the domestics? And out of the same side of their face they hope for the return of the French and the Italians? Huffing and Puffing IMO. The question was do we need our own automakers? As a country we have to answer that question. gagrice has a valid point that could modify the question to do we need the costs of the UAW? But we need our own industries far more now than we need to support someone elses industries. As it was said during the election it is the economy. In this economy we may need to get rid of some of the costs of the UAW. But we need to support our economy far more than we should support Japan"s or Germany' s.
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Replying to: joem5 (Mar 01, 2009 8:24 am) And yet you just did. If you are touting a law firm, then yeah, an ad post will get booted. China has decided it doesn't need so many automakers. 10 major ones will do, instead of the current 14 major ones and 100+ minor ones. China's Auto Bailout Takes a Different Route (Time) |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Mar 01, 2009 10:31 am) But let's say for argument's sake that the Scion was no better than say...a Pontiac. Yes, I would say quality is not in direct proportion to success, all by itself. The Big Three need to do more than just build better cars...they need to build more *appealing" cars. Say what you will about the Scion xB, people loved them then and love them now. If somehow you could plot a graph on the relative relationship between people loving their cars and reliability, I don't think the relationship would be all that strong. A car is, after all, not only transportation but a projection of dreams, desires, status, aspirations, aesthetics, etc. In other words, the Big Three could top the charts in reliability and still fail....yes.
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