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Automotive News & Views Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
1788 messages, Last post on Mar 03, 2009 at 2:18 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Feb 27, 2009 6:32 pm) Compared to what? The Fit at 2x the price? Hyundai Accent? Actually, yeah, it's a loser compared to the Accent...ever driven an Accent? My mother owned one, and I liked it quite a bit. Mind you, this is the PREVIOUS gen Accent that I'm saying is better than the CURRENT gen Aveo. Oh, and the Versa also beats out the Aveo. The Colorado Compared to what? Tacco, Frontier, and (wait for it) Dakota. The Ranger is a size smaller. The concept of a "mild hybrid" Wasn't the original Civic hybrid considered a "mild hybrid?" Maybe, until GM managed to pull the term down even further to mean "hybrid badge, larger battery and an improved alternator." The point of a hybrid was originally to save gas, but GM turned it into a marketing thing first, and if it happened to save gas OK (and if it doesn't no biggie). The new EcoBoost engines from Ford (and some of Mazda's as well) are getting "directed auto start stop" or something like that: One of the best technologies to come out of the hybrid craze and the easiest to apply to any vehicle. Incidentally, this is about equivalent to GM's "mild hybrid" system (the idle start-stop is really all it does), only Ford doesn't try and pass it off as hybrid technology (maybe because they make ACTUAL HYBRIDS?). We shouldn't be surprised...Ford was smart enough to prepare for the economic downturn, and has been smart enough to stay well clear of bailout money. Some other bright points: Chrysler Town & Country/Dodge Caravan, Cadillac CTS, Chevy Malibu (or really any GM car with the 3.6 DI engine), One hit for Chrysler...and how many stinkers? maybe 20? So they have a 5% success rate? 10% if you insert the Dakota (which really should be in there, nice truck, why didn't you mention it?). Two bright spots for GM (their full-size hybrids haven't improved anyone's real-world city-cycle mileage) out of how many piles of Waggoner droppings? That may actually be a lower percentage than Chrysler given how many zillions of models GM has. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Feb 27, 2009 6:32 pm) Compared to what? The Fit at 2x the price? Hyundai Accent? Or are you thinking of a 5 year old Civic (which is more likely what I would get at that pricepoint). A 5 year old Civic is a better car than a new Aveo and probably has more life left in it. Wasn't the original Civic hybrid considered a "mild hybrid?" It was less mild and five years ago. There was also the Insight, a real hybrid about 8 years ago. Some other bright points: Chrysler Town & Country/Dodge Caravan, Cadillac CTS, Chevy Malibu (or really any GM car with the 3.6 DI engine), GM's full size SUV hybrids (30% increase in city cycle MPG...if that doesn't matter to you, then you are either all highway or don't need a big SUV) and that is leaving the Dearborn folks completely off this list. Chrysler minivans have poor reliability and don't compete well against Sienna and Odyssey. The Malibu is finally at least in the ballpark - a double, not a home run. Noteworthy only because it doesn't suck like its predecessors. GMs full SUV hybrids are the wrong product at the wrong time. Even at $4/gal they can't earn back their $10K up front cost. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Feb 27, 2009 3:23 pm) That was weak, spyder. I expected better of you  If anything, having them built by American labor only rubs salt in the wounds of the Big Three. Leaves nobody to blame but the higher ups!
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 28, 2009 12:11 am) .. but the verb was..."...build..." It's still the corporate emphasis. Such vehicles like the Corolla, Civic, Cobalt, Focus all weigh about the same and are composed of about the same amount of materials. They all have about the same amount of direct labor ( not legacy costs ). I don't think we as Americans are any less capable of designing a small vehicle than the Japanese, Koreans, Italians or French. We may even have some creative advantages. But the corporate influences heretofore have pushed the creative and manufacturing talents of the D3 toward building and perfecting larger more profitable vehicles. It's not the workers it's the managers.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 28, 2009 12:11 am) I have often suspected you were way too optimistic. 
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Feb 28, 2009 11:14 am) One could very carefully assemble a badly designed part, and finish it beautifully, and it would still break.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 28, 2009 1:23 pm) Excellent small cars can be built in America, if management chooses to do so.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Feb 28, 2009 1:53 pm) Just not by the D3. As long as they carry $1500 to $3000 in legacy costs on each car they will not be able to build them with UAW labor. You cannot add $3000 to an Aveo and sell it. An Escalade maybe. Even a Silverado. Not a small car that will compete with Fit and Yaris. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Feb 28, 2009 2:00 pm) Just not by the D3. As long as they carry $1500 to $3000 in legacy costs on each car they will not be able to build them with UAW labor. You cannot add $3000 to an Aveo and sell it. An Escalade maybe. Even a Silverado. Not a small car that will compete with Fit and Yaris. Ford Fiesta
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Feb 28, 2009 2:47 pm) Which won't be built in the U.S......
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