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Automotive News & Views Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
1788 messages, Last post on Mar 03, 2009 at 2:18 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: grbeck (Feb 27, 2009 1:21 pm)  Okay, let me revise my comments then. America can't build a small competitive car at a profit. |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 27, 2009 12:59 pm) Maybe what we need is one really good NON-PROFIT automaker.
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Replying to: gagrice (Feb 27, 2009 8:16 am) Management of GM has to realize that these are unprecedented financial times. People may not buy a car from a bankrupt company but no one is buying cars from a company on the verge of bankruptcy. The credit situation is not going to improve over the coming months which means sales will stay in the 9M mark and no one makes money. There is no way GM can pay back the money. This is not 1980 and a $1B loan like Chrysler had. GM has lost money for the past 4 years when sales were good. I don't see the need to drive an American car to feel patriotic. I don't feel any sense of pride riding in a Ford pickup truck. Maybe I am too young to remember the positives of the domestic auto industry. I won't miss GM and Chrysler.
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Replying to: dtownfb (Feb 27, 2009 1:40 pm) There are plenty of choices out there. I don't feel any sense of pride riding in a Ford pickup truck. What does give you a sense of pride? Is there anything automotive based that does or is it other things like a nice home or a job where you feel is especially a good fit? Pride comes from a lot of places, for some people its a car (and because of the way it looks, drives, handles, where it comes from, what fuel economy it gets, what political statement it makes, etc). Maybe I am too young to remember the positives of the domestic auto industry. Prior to 6 months ago, what were the negatives of the domestic auto industry? I won't miss GM and Chrysler. I don't think you will have to worry about missing them for the first few years...the string of bankruptcies from all of the tier one and tier two suppliers will keep them in the news. Then the shortages in parts for the remaining OEMs. Then all the personal bankruptcies for all of the employees. Then the string of issues in the supply chain (since all of the suppliers are going bankrupt) for the rest of the OEMs. Then there is just the regular issue of 10% unemployment (or regionally, even higher). You won't miss them because we will be paying for what happens for years to come. Either they are fixed, add to GDP, and help the economy, or they go away, the drag is still there, and our economy is held back longer.
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Replying to: nippononly (Feb 27, 2009 1:39 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 27, 2009 2:14 pm) Actually, GM makes a good fit for the federal government's auto-manufacturing branch, to provide fleet cars and trucks for all needs for the various other branches of the federal government. They could even sell vehicles to states, cities, counties, and other government entities for a fixed profit, say 2% plus the cost of shipping. Heck the federal government basically owns Citi Group as of this morning, maybe they could even force it to finance government purchases of vehicles from Government Manufacturing at, say, 0.9%  Whew, these are wild times we are living in...... |
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Feb 27, 2009 12:59 pm) It's certainly possible and profitable with the correct corporate emphasis.
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Feb 27, 2009 1:58 pm) The same things that are wrong now. It just got worse as people ran out of credit. The problems of lousy offerings and running red ink were there then as now. Then there is just the regular issue of 10% unemployment (or regionally, even higher). Our taxes are now paying them much better money than they'll make on unemployment. Any case for having our own automakers has to be based on them being able to be run profitably. I'm not hearing that from either GM or Chrysler. As Chrysler is privately owned cut them off now. They can choose to invest more into their mistake or not. |
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Replying to: lilengineerboy (Feb 27, 2009 1:58 pm) The Cobalt The Aveo The Colorado The Avenger The Aspen The Nitro The concept of a "mild hybrid" Just to name a few There were lots, and they were mostly built by GM and Chrysler.
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Replying to: bpizzuti (Feb 27, 2009 3:55 pm) Compared to what? The Fit at 2x the price? Hyundai Accent? Or are you thinking of a 5 year old Civic (which is more likely what I would get at that pricepoint). The Colorado Compared to what? A Ranger? A Taco is 1.5x the size and 2x the price. For that much money, you can get a full size domestic pick-up in one of the "MPG" editions and come out about the same. Or is it just that they should abandon this market all together? That might make sense given the number of people that step up to a full size. The concept of a "mild hybrid" Wasn't the original Civic hybrid considered a "mild hybrid?" When you are idling at a red light, what is your MPG? The new EcoBoost engines from Ford (and some of Mazda's as well) are getting "directed auto start stop" or something like that: Assisted Direct Start. The 1.6-liter EcoBoost engine also features other fuel-saving powertrain technologies such as Assisted Direct Start (start-stop), which contributes to an additional 3% gain in fuel efficiency. Assisted Direct Start automatically shuts down the engine when the vehicle is at idle and automatically restarts the engine when the brake is released or gas pedal is engaged, improving fuel economy by saving idle fuel consumption. Some other bright points: Chrysler Town & Country/Dodge Caravan, Cadillac CTS, Chevy Malibu (or really any GM car with the 3.6 DI engine), GM's full size SUV hybrids (30% increase in city cycle MPG...if that doesn't matter to you, then you are either all highway or don't need a big SUV) and that is leaving the Dearborn folks completely off this list.
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