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Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?

1788 messages,  Last post on Mar 03, 2009 at 3:18 PM

You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires

What is this discussion about? Automotive News, Truck, Sedan, SUV


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#1149 of 1788
Re: Another Point of View [xrunner2] by dtownfb
Nov 14, 2008 (3:19 pm)
Reply

Replying to: xrunner2 (Nov 14, 2008 1:43 pm)

Amen! Another beautiful area is southern Jersey (not Camden).
#1150 of 1788
Found It! by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Nov 14, 2008 (3:33 pm)
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Okay, let try again to post the article: (rather overblown title but you know, it's journalism)
 
DETROIT MUST DIE
#1151 of 1788
Re: Found It! [Mr_Shiftright] by circlew
Nov 14, 2008 (3:39 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 14, 2008 3:33 pm)

Excellent article...that's why I just bought a Honda CRa-Ve! Any questions?
 
Good luc, GM.
 
Regards,
OW
#1152 of 1788
Re: Found It! [Mr_Shiftright] by lemko
Nov 14, 2008 (4:35 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 14, 2008 3:33 pm)

THAT JOURNALIST IS A WORTHLESS COWARDLY SCUMBAG!!!
 
Yeah, he has a LOT of guts writing that in a San Francisco paper thousands of miles away from Detroit! I'd like to drop him in the middle of a UAW convention and have him repeat what he said in that article! They'd tear him apart like a school of piranhas!
#1153 of 1788
Re: Found It! [lemko] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Nov 14, 2008 (5:02 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 14, 2008 4:35 pm)

Now tell us how you REALLY feel
 
This is the Internet, he might not be in San Francisco at all.
 
But I do agree, despite his very good points he did seem a bit cavalier about OTHER people losing their jobs.
 
I'm not sure the UAW is particularly proud of what they build. I'm not sure they care one way or the other.
 
I dunno. Anybody from the UAW lurking around here?
#1154 of 1788
by lemko
Nov 14, 2008 (5:25 pm)
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If I told you how I really felt, I'd be banned forever.
 
The first sentence of his article already had me fuming and he even included such icon as the Corvette and Mustang as examples. First of all, American cars are nowhere near as bad as the hyperbole in his opening sentence. Heck replace the names of the cars to "Camry, Accord, Sonata, CRV, Civic and Sentra" and American to "Asian" and you'll get exactly how I feel about those alien brands! They are the epitome of tedium and boredom! They're as palatable as unflavored styrofoam rice cakes. I wouldn't buy any of those dull Asian cars if they came with a pyramid of gold bullion in the trunk, ten thousand dollars of cash in the glovebox, and an ashtray full of flawless diamonds!
 
Don't even get me started on his callous lack of regard for the auto workers and their families, the economy at large, and the United States in general. My head might explode like that dude in the movie "Scanners."
#1155 of 1788
Two-Three Million U.S. jobs ... by keepinon
Nov 14, 2008 (5:30 pm)
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are related to our domestic auto industry. Can we aford to lose that? I too have many issues with the prolonged mismanagement of our Big Three. I bought many of those issues in the past. (Can you say Mustang II, EXP and Tempo to keep the list short?) But this old coot's concern for his own welfare (not to mention the millions of folks who would lose their means of financial support) gives him more than just a bit of pause. Do we need our own auto makers? As much as we need any similarly sized sector of our economy, I would argue. The government should help these folks through hard times. In the process we have a unique opportunity to reshape the industries priorities and push them to adopt change that will accelerate their adaptation to a post peak oil world. This is my own personal view, and of course could or could not be accurate, since my perspective is that of a mere consumer of the product of this industry.
#1156 of 1788
Re: [lemko] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Nov 14, 2008 (5:31 pm)
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Replying to: lemko (Nov 14, 2008 5:25 pm)

Now now have another look. He does specifically say there were "exceptions" to his roll call of mediocrity and banality. His point was that most American cars are a) uninteresting b) technically backward or c) trendy for a few minutes.
 
Of course comparing an Aveo to a Lexus or BMW is hardly fair but....you have to admit, American cars have been losing market share year after year after year.
 
Given that cold hard fact, which is sad to say not refutable, are we then to assume:
 
a. foreign car buyers are all stupid.
 
b. American cars are increasingly non-competitive.
 
c. the reason for the loss of market share is a mystery unknown to us.
#1157 of 1788
Re: [Mr_Shiftright] by circlew
Nov 14, 2008 (7:01 pm)
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 14, 2008 5:31 pm)

Yes, the business model forces the US cars to be uncompetitive because of the higher costs forcing second rate products. Let's face it. Our cars are not better than the competition in the customers eyes mirroring the market share erosion.
 
We have to be real here. The additional bailout cash is not going to solve this problem. A complete overhaul of the industry is the only way and there is no time for evolution. It's TIME for revolution and it will all be better off when the smoke clears.
 
You only support the value-added products that sell for a profit. So now, costs need to be drastically reduced. Use the money to close down at least 50% of the operations.
 
Regards,
OW
#1158 of 1788
Re: [circlew] by Mr_Shiftright HOST
Nov 14, 2008 (7:06 pm)
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Replying to: circlew (Nov 14, 2008 7:01 pm)

I believe someone in the know estimated that it would cost GM alone about $10 billion to downsize. This includes not only plant closings and pension buy-offs but also dealer buy-outs.

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