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Automotive News & Views Does America Even Need Its Own Automakers?
1788 messages, Last post on Mar 03, 2009 at 2:18 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: steve_ (Nov 12, 2008 11:43 am) Both of them would be eligible for the junkyard bonus 
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Aren't they based primarily on Daewoos and Holdens??? I believe they have a number of branded Buick models that are based off of a number of different cars like Daewoo and Holden. I believe the vast majority of Buick offerings are Daewoo in nature however. I realize GM would lose marketshare here in the US if they were to ditch the US manufacturing arm of GM. That being said, GM in China is growing a lot every single year. Buick is one of the best selling brands in China and has been for the last 5 or so years with no end in sight to Buicks sales. People would absolutely come back to Buick in the US if they were getting an inexpensive well built car that was reliable and got respectable gas mileage regardless of its country of origin. Look at Hyundai, the Hyundai excell (a mitsubishi car from stem to stern) was complete garbage. There were many people who bought them who were extremely disappointed in those cars. Hyundai, tried again with their own models that were better cars, and it wasn't until the early part of this very decade that Hyundais are good respectable cars comparable to the competition. Hyundai's biggest problem has been the exchange rates that have made their cars more expensive here due to the exchange rates. If people perceive value even if there experiences in the past have been bad ones they will eventually come back to that brand. I wouldn't expect everyone to come back initially but within 5-10 years they would have enough of a market to make a profit, this would be especially true for a car company with such little labor costs like China has verus the rest of the world. |
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... with their vote this month. They don't have a problem putting Nancy in charge of giving away our money. Her new boss certainly won't have a problem. Nationalism and Socialism is here to stay so we may as well have comunist built cars and then give welfare to the unemployed UAW workers. Cut a deal with China to put us all on welfare and we'll stay home and let them build things. (Sorta like paying farmers not to grow crops)
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Nov 13, 2008 6:11 am) 
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Nov 13, 2008 6:11 am) Some whine about communism, but forget that the American right worked very hard to open up China...almost seems like it was a longterm strategy to eventually knock us down a few dozen notches in the name of increased centralized control and governance by banks and corporations... |
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Were burned so badly by the Big 3, that they will never go back, and time does not heal all wounds. For example, I wouldn't buy buy a brand new Dodge Caliber at any price, even $5 unless I already had a signed written executed contract for someone else to buy it from me for a greater price than I am paying for it. It amazes me that the Big 3 resale values aren't even WORSE than they already are. I guess a sucker is born every minute. Again, I believe they have lost so many customers that there will never be enough new ones to make up for it. However, it they come back leaner and meaner, I suppose they could perhaps retain a small portion of that 45% market share. They seem to do well in SUV's and trucks, perhaps that is all they can do competently and profitably. They could leave the car business to others. If the goverment gave me 75 billion dollars, I think I could get a good US car company up and running from scratch, and start delivering a quality automobile for a competitive price. |
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| i agree with many of you guy's points. I just think another bailout for the car industry isn't going to work. I dont think enough can be accomplished to help resurface the success in American car companies. | |
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From the Philadelphia newspaper: http://www.philly.com/philly/hp/news_update/20081113_Harley-Davidson_feels_econo- my_s_pinch.html |
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Replying to: wvgasguy (Nov 13, 2008 6:11 am) I might soften a bit and suggest GM go into re-structuring, but not with the current board or CEO in place. I wouldn't vote for that. As for the doom and gloom about jobs, my take is that yes, a GM re-structure would be rather devastating, but mostly for the Midwest areas where they do most of their building (Michigan and adjoining states). I don't think the rest of the country will suffer anywhere near as much---suppliers will have a few layoffs, re-adjust who they sell to and what they sell, but they can cope with that. You might also deal UAW cutting a deal whereby GM brings back jobs from Mexico in exchange for being allowed by UAW to hire domestic workers at lower wages and benefits. As Time magazine recently pointed out, the irony of down-sizing is that in the auto industry, it costs a HUGE amount of money to downsize without bankruptcy. This makes a total restructure possibly more attractive to the corporate bean counters?
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Nov 13, 2008 9:31 am) Even with a bailout of $50B (this number keeps going up), GM is going to have to re-structure their business. They think they are re-structuring but until they make the painful decision to cut unsustainable divisions like Saturn, they are still at the tip of the iceberg in my mind. Cutting shifts, cutting labor, cutting benefits, etc are reactionary items that any manager can do when sales go into the tank. A visionary realizes that moving forward we can't sustain 7 separate auto divisions when your market share continues to shrink. A smart manager looks at what his successful competitor is doing and adopts it to his/her company. You also announce this plan to everyone who will listen so maybe they will invest in your company. The dumbest thing Wagoner could have done is announce to the world that GM will run out of money by January. Who wants to invest in this company knowing that it is a better than average chance, it may not be around come 2009? Also he is using fear to pressure the government instead of using the supposed leadership skills he possesses to develop a plan. If I was on the board of directors, Wagoner would be gone!!! GM cannot be successful with him as the leader. If this is his best plan for GM to survive, they need a change of leadership. NOW! Wagoner should be shouting form the rooftops his plan to turn around the company. Going to all his top investors and showing them how GM return to profitability even in a down market. Instead his plan is to instill fear in the American people which is why people are saying "let them fail". GM needs to sit down with the UAW and have a heart to heart. Open all of their financial books and figure out a way with the UAW to make GM profitable. The UAW will have to make concessions but in return maybe Gm can offer employee ownership for the UAW (stock options) so the workers are invested in the company. GM succeeds, the worker succeeds. Also maybe for lower wages, they move the plants from Mexico back to the US so they can hire back some workers. Work with the dealerships to reduce the number of franchises based on fewer car divisions. How about selling the remaining 49% of GMAC to Cerebus and negotiate loosening the credit lines so more people qualify for loans. I think Ford is already on the right path and has taken drastic steps to return to profitability. They can make it and they do have the products in place. They just need the original $25B (I have no problem with this money since it is related to upgrading plants for fuel efficient cars) and maybe a safety net just in case things don't work out (car sales go lower next year). Offer Ford a line of credit. Chrysler/Cerebus: No money. Cerebus wants out of the auto industry. Let them sell Chrysler or individual divisions. They have no commitment to the workers, so no money. Plus they have money to invest and/or the ability to obtain it, they don't want to. |
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