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Geo Metro Engine Questions

410 messages,  Last post on Feb 09, 2013 at 7:23 PM

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What is this discussion about? Chevrolet Metro, Geo Metro, Fuel System, Convertible

    

Messages Page 41 of 42

#397 of 410 Re: Chasing shorts in wiring [heavyhook] by zenden

Jan 14, 2013 (3:17 pm)

Replying to: heavyhook (Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am)
What I would like to hear is what where your test results from the last message that I sent. Did you ground terminal 2 on the Fuel pump relay and did the car start up?
 
ECM’s are on the right side of dash. Usually just take out glove box. I still don’t think you need ECM. It still sounds like that power supply has melted a wire some ware causing a permanent short circuit.
   
 
Part numbers for your cars ECM are below.
Fits your GEO Metro 1995 1.0 L 5spd Trans
Call junk yard to verify this info; $50.00
They should be all over the internet if you cant find one near you. I could get one and ship it if it was absolutely necessary. I don’t think that old ECM like that are worth much, price only depends on your location. I am between Baltimore and Washington. I will read your message again and do more research on that short that you just described. Sounds like you are on the right track, Good luck!
 
For cars with Federal emissions standards
  FIREFLY 95 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl) METRO 95 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl),
Controller (ECM) Part Numbers are:
  30013137, 30016396, 30017506, 3392050G20, 3392050G21, 3392050G22,
 
For cars with California emissions standards
  METRO 95 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl)
Controller (ECM) Part Numbers are:
  30015669, 30016395, 3392050G10, 3392050G11

#398 of 410 Re: Chasing shorts in wiring [heavyhook] by zenden

Jan 14, 2013 (4:01 pm)

Replying to: heavyhook (Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am)
Check all of these things and let me know if all is well; if not then I need to know what failed.
Test:
FI fuse hot all the time! Supplies constant 12V power to the Main Relay for when needed (MR) Main Relay terminal #4; MR also needs 12V at terminal #1 with key On! Terminal #2 is to be grounded by ECM signal when key is on! When key is turned on, power must come out of terminal#3 to power up the injectors and to send power to the Fuel pump relay terminal #4.

#399 of 410 Re: Chasing shorts in wiring [heavyhook] by zenden

Jan 14, 2013 (5:35 pm)

Replying to: heavyhook (Jan 11, 2013 11:15 am)
Schematics show me that there is no link at all between the ECM and the tail light circuit. There is an idol up diode linked between the brake signal and ECM that speeds the idol up. But that is not going to blow a fuse, so forget that! The only link would be a short circuit!
 Test this and get back with me please: When dose Tail fuse blow out, with switch on or off? Also key on or off? What ever you have to do to blow that fuse; do that same procedure again; but this time with the (Light 1 Relay removed!)

#400 of 410 Geo wiring problems by heavyhook

Jan 15, 2013 (9:20 pm)

We had a storm come thru last Thursday that created some damage to my house, I had to spend the weekend repairing. So I have not been able to work on the Geo since last Wednesday the 9th. This morning we got up to 1/2" off ice on everything which pretty much melted away during the day. I will try to get out and do the test you requested tomorrow.
 One thing I discovered is my Geo is a 93 not a 95 like I told you. Also the wiring diagrams I using from AllData show they are for a 93 Suzuki Swift. It actually shows the white wire from the tail fuse connecting thru C6 or C8 (hard to read which) going to pin A26 for TBI systems to the ECM. Also white wire from tail fuse goes thru C4 to the clock, radio, data link connector. C6 to dome light and C2 to ignition switch (key warning).
 I will test to see if the tail fuse plug is grounded with the key off, I'm sure it is if IG switch on? On the fuel pump relay I will add B+ to fuel pump terminal #2 and try to start and check for ground signal injector if still no start situation. I was able to run the fuel pump before by adding B+ signal to Main Relay fuel pump terminal #4 with relay activated. But I will check the voltage at terminal#2 and I will make a note of that and include in my next post tomorrow! One last thing I can find no Light 1 relay on my drawings. I think I need to find the same ones your using somewhere! Thanks Dennis

#401 of 410 Re: Geo wiring problems [heavyhook] by zenden

Jan 15, 2013 (10:35 pm)

Replying to: heavyhook (Jan 15, 2013 9:20 pm)
No problem! I will check in to the 93 model and let you know if I see anything; the wiring is a little more simplified. If your car has the federal emissions standard, the ECM interchanges with:
 FIREFLY 92-93 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl), Hatchback, base and LSI, MT
 METRO 92-93 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl), Hatchback, base and LSI, MT, Canada
 METRO 92-93 (ECM); 1.0L (3 cyl), Hatchback, base and LSI, MT
Part Numbers 30010098, 3392060E30, 3392060E31 and 3392060E32

#402 of 410 Test results by heavyhook

Jan 16, 2013 (9:15 pm)

ZenDen, I'm sorry about getting the year wrong on my Geo. I was able to see the bottom of the ECM today while looking for any wire damage above the interior fuse panel. It is located above the interior fuse on the farthest left close to where the left fender is but behind the dash cover. My ECM is # 3392060E32. While checking the condition of when the tail fuse grounds out as you requested I found it was no longer shorted out. I checked to make sure all the connectors on the back of the inside fuse panel were connected securely but could find nothing that looked suspicious. I am really troubled by this. You also requested I test the fuel Injection and fuel pump relays and here are those results.
Fuel Injection Relay
Key on #1,#2,#4 =B+ and #3 negative
Key off #1,#3,#4 =negative and #2=B+
Fuel Pump Relay
Key On #1,#2,#3=B+ and #4negative
Key Off#1,#2,#3,#4 negative
Tail Fuse has B+ key on or Key off
Fuel pump relay #4 does not get B+ when key is turned on for first 2 seconds or any other time that I have found. When I apply B+ to #4 fuel pump runs until B+ is removed. I have not tried to start with pump running continuously with B+ added to #4. Is this ok? No problem with fuel pump running all the time?
I tried to start the engine after no blown fuses existed by using a starter jumper button attached to starter solenoid and placed about 20 cc's gas in throttle body but engine still did not try to fire up. I used the starter button so could be under hood to observe things while cranking.
I did not get any signal at TBI injector wires! Also I installed a fuse in the MIL fuse socket after no blown fuses but no extra light showed up on instrument panel.
What do you think about the short in Tail fuse going away? Could it possible have something to do with left side combination switch that operates headlights, parking lights and turn signals?
Thanks for your input!!!

#403 of 410 Re: Test results [heavyhook] by zenden

Jan 17, 2013 (9:57 pm)

Replying to: heavyhook (Jan 16, 2013 9:15 pm)
Time to put my thinking cap on and its late at night. I just got your message Thursday 11:45PM Eastern time. I will look this over and get back with you ASAP; Good work!

#404 of 410 Re: Test results [heavyhook] by zenden

Jan 17, 2013 (10:38 pm)

Replying to: heavyhook (Jan 16, 2013 9:15 pm)
Turn Key on and ground terminal #3 on the fuel pump relay; ( when grounding this terminal leave the relay in place) The car will most likely start because of bad pump relay, or bad ECM, or a bad connection between ECM and pump relay. It sounds like it could be a bad ECM but the car may still run fine when you trigger that pump relay to ground. If the pump runs but the engine still won’t start when you jump the pump relay by grounding its terminal #3; then check for injector signal again. If you have no injector signal or fuel pump signal or FI signal from ECM then it’s a good chance it will be bad ECM. I could understand 1 bad trigger wire coming out of it but not 3. If necessary, I can identify the trigger wires for you to test after your finished this test. Dennis
PS:I’m not sure about that tail light short circuit at this time with out looking deeper into the schematics.

#405 of 410 Test results by heavyhook

Jan 19, 2013 (8:18 pm)

Grounded terminal #3 on the fuel pump relay as requested. The fuel pump was running but no sign of it trying to fire up. I even primed the throttle body body with 20cc's of gas but not even a burp. I rechecked The signals at the injector with the key on and off. I'm not really sure if I am checking the right wires . The plug in connector that appears to power the TBI injector connects on the side of the throttle body that faces the passenger side front tire. This connector has two wires one Yellow and one Yellow/black. Key off both are grounded ,with key on yellow/black wire grounded and Yellow is B+. I fell like I am dropping the ball here some where. I cannot find the right wiring diagram in what I have for TBI system only FPI system. Coils hot, I verified fuel is reaching the throttle body. But were getting no spark and It doesn't seem like the injector is opening during cranking to allow the fuel thats needed.

#406 of 410 Re: Test results [heavyhook] by zenden

Jan 21, 2013 (6:36 pm)

Replying to: heavyhook (Jan 19, 2013 8:18 pm)
You are checking the right wires; the yellow one is power from relay; the yellow black from ECM. I made my email address public for this forum, but for some reason it can not be viewed by other members. I would like you to contact me at dennybamhotmail.com I will send to you the schematic that you need. Dennis
 PS: I’m leaving town very soon, and may not come home till spring! Email me ASAP

Messages Page 41 of 42

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