Article Comments - 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe First Drive and Follow-Up Test

62 messages, Last post on Jun 05, 2008 at 3:32 PM

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What is this discussion about? Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid, Hybrid Cars, SUV

Article comments for First Drive: 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Two-Mode Hybrid - Two-mode hybrids aren't exactly new. GM has had the two-mode hybrid system working in transit buses since 2003. Today, about 700 of those buses are operating in 60 cities in North America and have just been introduced in Europe. (more)

Follow-Up Test: 2008 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid - Bottom Line: It's better, but whether it's $9,100 better is up to you. (more)

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#53 of 62 Re: Is the point of a hybrid lost? [gagrice] by adamgreen May 24, 2008 (11:48 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Aug 03, 2007 4:22 pm) A matter of fact from what source? I saw magazine reviews giving it poor marks for being no better than the much cheaper 460 and slower acceleration (let alone the "equivalent of a V12" nonsense from Toyota.) I had high hopes for the LS600hL because of the limo wheelbase (we need the passenger leg room) but it was sorely disappointing and will be one of those $100K cars that in two years will be all but unsalable at $40-50K -- that's a high price to pay for all but no added value (although I do like the rear seating space ... : )
#54 of 62 Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. by adamgreen May 26, 2008 (10:27 pm)
What's the compelling value in the proposition of the vehicle with such a high price premium that it takes years to just break even? Is it really so rewarding to go 20 mpg instead of 18 mpg? In my case, I have a diesel SUV getting 16 mpg and in California, diesel is over $5/gal and some places are already at $5.50/gal. This Tahoe Hybrid is drinking 87 RON gas (aka "California water" at about $4/gal. So 20 mpg is at least a 20% improvement and 87 is probably going to stay at least 20% below diesel. I'm prepared to call that a 40% reduction in cost per mile (plus the diesel has high maintenance costs.) The diesel SUV has averaged about 30K miles per year for over two years. My "next" year at an average of say $5/gal diesel and 16 mpg would be 30,000/16*5=~$9500. A nominal 40% reduction would be say $4000 in very round figures. I could "break even" on an MSRP Tahoe versus a Tahoe Hybrid in two years. Break even. Wow. Or I could look at the '08 Tahoe being unchanged from an '07 and get one of those for about $15K off MSRP. Or get at least $5K off an new '08 Tahoe. Just look at dealers trying to sell V8 anything over Memorial Day weekend -- the deals in the paper were like the huge discounts we saw back in '05. The buyer has this market. I think I'd rather get a heavily discounted brand new Ford Expedition and keep $10K in my pocket for gas money. And the resale on this first generation of GM hybrid will be pennies on the dollar once the "next" version comes along with improvements. I have an '05 Prius and enjoy the high mpg. The only "appeal" in the Tahoe Hybrid would be getting (relatively) high MPG from it (say 30 mpg) but just barely getting close to mini-van MPG numbers is pretty useless and for a heavy full-size SUV, the Tahoe Hybrid is rated to only 6000 lb towing capacity. And the 4WD version has low profile skirts and low rolling resistance tires. What's that word the kids are using these days? F A I L : ) Replies to this message: peralta (May 27, 2008 2:53 am) gagrice (May 27, 2008 5:55 am) adamgreen (Jun 05, 2008 10:28 am) and 2 more... adamgreen (Jun 05, 2008 10:21 am) nedzel (Jun 05, 2008 10:45 am)
#55 of 62 Re: Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. [adamgreen] by peralta May 27, 2008 (2:53 am)
Replying to: adamgreen (May 26, 2008 10:27 pm) It is already in the market. It's called the Highlander Hybrid. There will soon be the minivan hybrid. Replies to this message: gagrice (May 27, 2008 5:55 am) adamgreen (Jun 05, 2008 10:28 am) volkov (Jun 05, 2008 10:52 am) and 1 more... adamgreen (Jun 05, 2008 10:21 am) nedzel (Jun 05, 2008 10:45 am)
#56 of 62 Re: Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. [peralta] by gagrice May 27, 2008 (5:55 am)
Replying to: peralta (May 27, 2008 2:53 am) Anyone looking at full sized SUV is not interested in the LITTLE Highlander. Especially the WAY over price HH. There is a real bad deal for the buyer. About $7,000 premium for a ONE MPG gain on the highway over the regular Highlander. Plus the towing on the HH is much lower than the standard Highlander. I think a better case can be made for the Tahoe Hybrid than the HH. Not by much though. There are many full sized SUVs with BIG discounts right now that are much better choices. Now is the time for buying a big SUV before the Oil bubble bursts. It is going to happen and those that took a huge loss downsizing will be kicking themselves. Replies to this message: adamgreen (Jun 05, 2008 10:28 am) volkov (Jun 05, 2008 10:52 am) gagrice (Jun 05, 2008 3:32 pm)
#57 of 62 Tank per tank fuel economy hybrid vs non hybrid by peralta May 27, 2008 (1:49 pm)
If you look closely on owners' input of fuel economy on various sites including fueleconomy.gov, even if the Highlander hybrid is only 1 mpg better on highway, tank per tank the hybrid is 40% better (17 mpg vs 24 mpg). Now if all the roads have no traffic lights, no intersections, no traffic jams, no speed limit below 30 mph, no stop signs, no tool booths, just plain driving from point a to point b in a highway speeds, then without a doubt the nonhybrid beats the hybrid. I did a round trip from NYC to CT in a sienna minivan (100 miles) and got 30 mpg. On steady speed, the sienna registers 33-36 mpg. On similar trip, my HH only got just above 28 mpg. The HH can only register 30-32 mpg on steady speed but when it is time to fill up, my HH gets 30 mpg but my minivan gets only 24 mpg (most of the time it is only 20-22 mpg). It makes me frustrated that I am not getting excellent fuel economy on the highway in my HH but at the end of the day the hybrid still wins by a large margin.
#58 of 62 Re: Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. [peralta] by adamgreen Jun 05, 2008 (10:21 am)
Replying to: peralta (May 27, 2008 2:53 am) I looked at the first and second generations of the HH and the compromises and shortcomings outweighed the marginal benefit of city mpg since we use a Prius for around town and need space for luggage when traveling in the SUV. I'm wondering if, for example, the round-trip drive from San Francisco to Lake Tahoe would allow the Tahoe Hybrid to strut its stuff or if the long climbs would deplete the battery and the long descents would see it fully charged (and the extra potential energy would go to waste because the regenerative braking would have nowhere left to store the electrons.) Replies to this message: nedzel (Jun 05, 2008 10:45 am)
#59 of 62 Re: Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. [gagrice] by adamgreen Jun 05, 2008 (10:28 am)
Replying to: gagrice (May 27, 2008 5:55 am) I think you're right to say the Highlander is not comparable to the Tahoe (hybrid or conventional) and sure enough both manufacturers position the vehicles as mid-size and full-size, so they don't intend to compare the two. As I mentioned in an earlier comment on this review, I've looked at the Highlander more than once. Most recently, looking at the newer (larger) Highlander, two friends driving it for much the same reasons I would have it (to get to the snow or take short camping trips in the mountains) said it was a disappointment. Diving it was uncomfortable (though acceleration is handy when the battery is charged,) the compact cabin space and high price were never justified when it came time to stop to fill up only to calculate unremarkable mpg performance. I really was ready to buy one at MSRP, but if the thing doesn't reward that investment with 30 or 40 mpg, the novelty soon wears as thin as the wallet. : ) Replies to this message: volkov (Jun 05, 2008 10:52 am) gagrice (Jun 05, 2008 3:32 pm)
#60 of 62 Re: Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. [adamgreen] by nedzel Jun 05, 2008 (10:45 am)
Replying to: adamgreen (Jun 05, 2008 10:21 am) Hybrids do best in the city in stop-and-go traffic. That is where they see their biggest mileage advantage.
#61 of 62 Re: Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. [adamgreen] by volkov Jun 05, 2008 (10:52 am)
Replying to: adamgreen (Jun 05, 2008 10:28 am) For us the cost difference for the HiHy was going to be worth the extra up-front investment compared to the gas Highlander, in part due to gov't tax incentives we have here in BC. There was no doubt it would quickly pay for itself as the overwhelming majority of our driving is in-city. The fall-down was the very high price tag of the Highlander compared to other 7 passenger options with the HiHy $200-300 more per month on a 4 year lease compared to competitors. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jun 05, 2008 3:32 pm)
#62 of 62 Re: Make it 30 mpg and less sticker premium and we can talk. [volkov] by gagrice Jun 05, 2008 (3:32 pm)
Replying to: volkov (Jun 05, 2008 10:52 am) $200-300 more per month Even at Canada gas prices that is a lot of gas per month. Should cover the average gas Highlander fuel bill every month.