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Automotive News & Views Is Lexus The Standard of the World?
240 messages, Last post on Mar 11, 2008 at 12:25 PM
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Replying to: drfill (Sep 24, 2007 10:28 am)  -Rocky |
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Replying to: rockylee (Sep 24, 2007 10:31 am) Oh, and the IS-F indeed shifts faster than the regular IS but not as fast as the DSG. Edmunds already did a first drive in C63, you can do a search for the article. I am not sure they tested the 0-60 time though. |
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Replying to: louiswei (Sep 24, 2007 8:48 am) Let's not be "technical". Let's be practical. When I test drove the SLK55 on one of my favorite set of curves back when I was sports car shopping, here's the difference with that damn slushbox. I hit the paddle to downshift as I was heading ito a curve at, say 45 mph, and the shift actually happened at least 1/4 second later. Maybe even 1/2 second. Again, it's not the elapsed time the transmission was between gears (that might have only been 1/10 of a secondor less ) but it was trying to time the delay between tapping the paddle and the downshift to start. Let's not speculate. If you have the time to test drive an LS-F on a dyno, you surely have the time to do a real test drive of a C63/CLK63. You tell me what you think. But, limited as my driving skills are (still procrastinating on the Porsche driving school), the "non F1 slushbox inspired" delays were somewhere between frustrating and scarry. When I'm downshifting a manual, even if I'm "technically" slower, I'm in complete control and can time the clutch letup nearly perfectly at the apex of a curve. With the AMG it was guesswork and easy to guess wrong. By 20, 30, or 40+ feet at times. This is just stupid crap for a sports car or sedan. Lexus should go with SMG or DSG if they are really convinced their demographic is manual challenged. But an 8 speed slushbox is, in my overused terminology, pitiful. And by the way, don't get all excited over the C63. As far as balance and handling, that 6.2 liter V8 in a small car overloads the front wheels and is, from what I hear, not nearly as nimble as the lighter weight C32 was. And if you really insist that straight line acceleration is the bomb, the SL65 packs 604hp and a mind boggling 738 ft-lb of torque. That's 134 ft.lbs more than the $480,000 SLR. But, just for the fun of it, call up Contemporary Mercedes in PA and ask the owner why, with all of those AMG offerings to choose from, he drives a Porsche Cayman S almost exclusively from April to October.
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And by the way, don't get all excited over the C63. As far as balance and handling, that 6.2 liter V8 in a small car overloads the front wheels and is, from what I hear, not nearly as nimble as the lighter weight C32 was. And if you really insist that straight line acceleration is the bomb, the SL65 packs 604hp and a mind boggling 738 ft-lb of torque. That's 134 ft.lbs more than the $480,000 SLR. But, just for the fun of it, call up Contemporary Mercedes in PA and ask the owner why, with all of those AMG offerings to choose from, he drives a Porsche Cayman S almost exclusively from April to October. Good job, Habby. 
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Replying to: habitat1 (Sep 24, 2007 5:49 pm) That, my friend, is the whole point, your preference doesn't equal to better performance. In your case, maybe, but definitely not universal. I am not going to test drive a C63 since I have no intention in buying one so I won't waste a sales person's time. However, from what I hear, this new C63 is by far the best C-class AMG up to date. Edmunds did a first drive on the C63 couple months ago, you should do a search to that article, very interesting read. Also, comparing C63 to SL65 is pointless since the price difference is at least $80K. Be honest, I would choose the Cayman S over the SL65 too, I like straight line acceleration a lot but what I like is "useful daily drive worthy" acceleration, not the drag strip version. The SL65 is for someone who wants a GT roadster with prestige factor, Cayman S is for those who likes to drive and C63 is for those who need a 4-door sedan practicality but also want best-in-class performance. They are all different animals
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Replying to: louiswei (Sep 25, 2007 7:29 am) I'm driving a loaner Audi A3 with a 6-speed automatic that can be shifted manually (the 911's convertible top needs to be serviced). Not a bad little car, but the manual shifting of the transmission is a joke. As with the SLK, the upshifts are relatively quick, but the downshifts are slow and rather than naturally slowing the car down, it appears to cause a blip in power. Even when it's not wanted. So I am hitting the brake while downshifting in a turn?? Great! I'm leaving it in automatic the rest of the day so I don't crash trying to "play" manual with an automatic. And frankly, that's all these paddle shifting slushboxes are good for, playing. P.S. Best in class performance from a 4-door C63? I'll happily take a previous generation M5. They were what AMG can only dream of in all around driving dynamics.
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Replying to: habitat1 (Sep 25, 2007 10:01 am) Here's what I found: It isn't "required" in all cases. For racing/high performance driving, it is certainly recommended though. Here is why: When you push the clutch in to downshift your engine slows down, but your wheels/gears/etc.. keep moving at whatever speed you are going. When you let the clutch out for the next selected gear the engine is at idle, and then in an instant you are trying to make it run high RPMs. The shock will lock up the wheels causing a nasty little corner-entry twitch, which may result in a spin. By "rev-matching" which is keeping the revs up while the clutch is in, you decrease the chance of that happening. So.. it makes for smoother gearshifts that make the car more stable, and is easier on the equipment. You want to blip the throttle enough to bring the RPMs up to where they would be in the lower gear at the current speed. So, if you are going say 40 MPH, and you want to down shift to 3rd gear, you give the throttle a little stab with your foot bringing the RPMs up to about ~3K - 3.5K, so that when you let the clutch out the car won't jerk or lurch at all. You get used to what speeds are where in what gear from driving; this is just an example of what to do. Once you learn it you won't even need to look at the tach; you'll just "feel" where it needs to be. Now, if you are doing the same thing, and you rev to say ~5K and let the clutch out, you will get a push back as the engine is slowed to match the speed of the car. Sort of like dumping the clutch on a launch; only while moving. It's not a desirable situation, but neither is having the RPMs at only 1K on that shift. You really have to get the feel for your car; it's about practice. Oh, and you are not reving between gears, you are simply matching the speed of the engine to the speed of the tires. If the proper rev speed is attained the car will shift as smooth as an automatic. You won't look foolish unless you do it wrong. Now, in the same situation, if you didn't rev match into a corner, you'd look really silly when you spin out from the lurch of the car being dropped a gear and not rev matched. Good luck and practice. Ok well it pretty much is tapping the throttle after you downshifted and then just let the clutch out? How much of a blip? Doesn't it make the shift time alot longer because it now went from, gear change/clutch release... to gear change/blip/clutch release... and what if you blip TOO much. I know if I saw someone driving and then heard a rev in between gears I'd think they didn't know how to drive. I am no expert in manual tranny so you be the judge of that. The C63 is a compact sedan, M5 is midsize, which are not in the same class. I also believe the price difference is something like $30K, also makes the two in-comparable.
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Replying to: louiswei (Sep 25, 2007 10:20 am) Thanks, but I know what rev matching is and do use it driving a maual. You missed my qualifier stating that the "blip" occurs in the A3, whether you want it or not. There are times when you don't want that blip of power, like when you are slowing down into a curve - thereby forcing you to brake harder than necessary. That was my experience with the A3 this morning. With a manual, I can depress the clutch, hold it in neutral downshift, brake into the corner, and then let out the clutch while rev matching and applying power through the apex. One part of the quote is interesting: Once you learn it you won't even need to look at the tach; you'll just "feel" where it needs to be. That pretty much describes driving a manual transmission, period. Why anyone would choose a manually shifted slushbox automatic and have to put up with all this "interference" in a sports car or sports sedan, I'll never know. It dramatically lowers the driving enjoyment factor and precision for me. But that's the subject of another forum. |
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Is Lexus The Standard of the World? Its getting better and better IMO YES |
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Apologies - joined in late. For me ? Rolls Royce; moreso now than at anytime in their recent past. Maybach as an alternative, perhaps ? Of course, if "Sporty" is a main criteria then it just has to be Bugatti. Nothing else quite like it, I suspect - despite the claims of some specialist builders. Merc, BMW, Lexus et al all reside in a more low-rent part of the universe, (still a cracking place to be but not where the true greats live). Just £0.02 worth from a Brit. 
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