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Hybrid Vehicles Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon Hybrid Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon Hybrid
301 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 10:58 AM
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 04, 2007 3:23 pm) We are FORCED to do things everyday that we may not agree are right but they are legal and lawful. Virginia penalizes it's citizens upwards of $3500 along with a residual tax of $1100 each year for 10 yrs thereafter for speeding, or passing a stopped school bus or other dangerous activity. It was just written into law after being voted by the legislature and signed by the Governor. If you are VA resident you are FORCED not to speed. I can also see if the situation doesn't improve on the supply side that a. there may be rationing; b. we may be forced to limit the number of miles we drive; c. some of us may be forced to turn in our driver's licenses; d. certain cities may force motorists to leave their vehicles at the city limits; e. we may be forced to buy hybrids ( all large vehicles must be hybrids ) in order to save fuel. Lots and lots of people won't like some or all of these options but if it's a question of keeping peace in the streets and keeping the military fueled up to protect us then and keeping the economy alive then we the citizens may be forced into uncomfortable decisions, legally and lawfully.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Oct 04, 2007 3:30 pm) Continuing on topic, it would make a lot more sense to use a diesel engine in these vehicles. The savings in hybridizing a heavy vehicle is the fact that the worst driving characteristic is improved 50%. For every mile that a hybrid Tahoe or Yukon drives in the city it saves 50% of the fuel that an ICE would use. This is a HUGE benefit. Rough numbers taken to the extreme. All new trucks ( pickups, SUVs, Crossovers and Vans ) total about 8 Million new vehicles a year. Each drives about 15000 mi on average now. Each gets from 14 mpg to 19 mpg in the City segment, say an average of 17 mpg. If 'City' driving is about 50% of the total then the new 'truck fleet' each year uses 8 million x (( 15000 / 2 ) / 17 mpg ) = 3.53 Billion gallons of fuel If all of these were to be made hybrids then half that fuel would be saved each year. What does that do for our national consumption of petroleum products? We use about 7.6 Billion bbl of oil annually here which is about 25% of the world's usage. Our usage will climb to about 10 Billion bbl in the near future. About 65% of this usage goes toward transportation. 'Forcing' the least efficient vehicles to use a more efficient system like any of the hybrid technologies in place now would save about 63 million bbl annually. That's about 8% of our total current usage or about 12-13% of our transportation usage. That's just city driving in 'trucks'. Diesels: We'll have to see how the new VW's do in the EPA tests using the new emissions equipment. Diesels would seem to be best for heavy vehicles but GM, Ford and Toyota seem to think that the cost of achieving acceptable emissions is too high. Hybrids gain the same benefit at a lower cost. Then there is the salability of diesels. Someone, prolly Honda, is going to have to do the grunt work to educate the American public about clean diesel. How long? In the meanwhile GM, F, T can be selling hybrids. Toyota has already done the grunt work to educate the public on hybrids.
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Replying to: tourguide (Oct 04, 2007 4:44 pm) I think you misunderstood my post. I am not in favor of hybrid diesels, for the exact reasons you mention. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Oct 04, 2007 5:22 pm) I don't think it will be 50% improvement in any driving cycle. The Hybrid pickups only get about 1 MPG difference in the city, which is less 10% or so; I expect the Tahoe & etc to get similar. If there is truly a 50% gain in actual driving, that is very good - but I will be surprised. However, even with a 50% gain the net gas savings (to the planet, to the supply of oil, etc) will not be nearly the same as someone switching from a 2.5 ton SUV to a 1 ton compact vehicle - even an ICE only vehicle. That is the second part of my point - it isn't just %, it is total gallons saved. It is all about weight, mass, and the energy required to get 2.5 tons of metal up to speed. About the only thing those large hybrids do effectively is shut down the engine when stopped. But then there is a massive amount of weight that has to be hauled to get up to speed, which quickly saps the battery. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Oct 04, 2007 5:02 pm) Off to the races again! The right of the minority to be free of "tyranny of the majority" is a well established rule of law in the US. Just out of curiosity (purely hypothetical), what would you do if the majority - i.e., Congress - passed a law making it against the law to sell hybrids, or perhaps a national referendum had the same results? Not a pleasant thought from any perspective. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Oct 04, 2007 5:22 pm) For those who say that these issues take care by themselves are really ignorant. Alternative energies in the long term is about saving american lives, enhancing our national security, econmic security and Al gore's environnment.  These new technologies on alternative energy will bring new jobs with new prosperity just as the internet did in the last decade. Energy Efficiency is a also part of this equation where these new hybrids will help use less fossil fuels till new one alternative solutions spring up in the near future. GM should of introduced the diesel first but I believe the reason they went with hybrid is because of emissions. Diesel is still too dirty but finally new cleaner diesel engines are being introduced. The Germans such as Mercedes, Audi, VW have recently introduced them. Honda is next and they did it with out using "Urea". Next step is integrating both technologies to get the double whammy effect of fuel efficiency. It may be initially expensive but I'm sure the prices as these technologies mature will go down. Other technogies in the wing all Plug- in electric car with some exotic battery technology or the infamous Hydrogen fuel cell. Exciting future ahead and the auto corporations along with the government need to work together to resolve our energy needs for our future. |
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Replying to: galvang (Sep 24, 2007 9:53 pm) That is completely false. GM, Ford, and most other car manufacturers are public companies. So are the oil companies. They make statements to their shareholders every quarter. I suggest that you read their quarterly reports and look for such payments. There aren't any. GM, Ford, and all the other manufacturers are doing everything they can to improve the mileage of vehicles while building vehicles that people want to buy. The fact of the matter is that, until the last couple years, most people in the US didn't want to drive small, fuel efficient vehicles. More people in the US now want small vehicles, but not everyone. And it takes several years for the manufacturers to bring new models to market. The most efficient way to improve the fuel economy of the US fleet is to increase fuel taxes and rationalize the diesel emissions regulations. There is a significant price elasticity to the demand for fuel. We should work with human nature, rather than trying (via CAFE) to force manufacturers to build cars that people don't want to buy. Finally, hybrids work pretty well on small cars in city traffic. But they are not simple technology. Witness the fact that the car company with the most proven hybrid cars, Toyota, has pretty much failed in their efforts to build larger hybrids. The Highlander, Camry, and LS600h hybrids have all had disappointing economy. That isn't because of some back room deal. That's because hybrids are hard to engineer. |
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Replying to: nedzel (Oct 09, 2007 9:23 am) I don't think the Camry Hybrid is that disappointing. Most people are reporting Mid-30's, while having V6 acceleration levels. That is better than the I4 Camry. |
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Replying to: nedzel (Oct 09, 2007 9:23 am) Compare that to an average of less than 20 miles per gallon on the non hybrid version. That is a realistic increase of more than 50% in fuel economy. That even beats the compacts cars that I used to drive in the past.
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Replying to: nedzel (Oct 09, 2007 9:23 am) My statement was an opinion and belief. Do you have any facts to substantiate otherwise??  With this in mind... . I have worked in corporations all my life, almost 30yrs, what corporations say to shareholders are sometimes exagurated and sometimes outright lies. Most have been truthful but one or two have been almost criminal. I usually take corporation statements with a grain of salt and with a little skeptism. Hence Enron, Tyco, and others. So.... . Do the quarterly reports show how the car manufactures and oil spend in lobbying efforts in doing everything they can to block legislation to improve efficiency on vehicles. NO. Do the quarterly reports (10q) show the back room deals that went on with oil industry and the white house, No. The quarterly reports only show what is legal for them to report to their shareholders. It does not report any unethical activity or behind the scene deals or any other activity that would benefit soley the suspect corporations. I have nothing against government backroom deals as long the intent is to improve the majority "we the people". Agreed, Toyota is arguably ahead in the game on hybrids in terms of cost. Although GM did a nice job with the Tahoe/Yukon with the dual mode hybrid. Thats why I'm on this board. For larger trucks and SUVs, diesels will probably improve the highway mileage while Hybrids will improve mostly in city driving. Toyota already acknowledged that they see that hybrids will be a standard for all vehicles in the future. Minimal cost adder for hybrids, Toyota stated recently.
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