Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon Hybrid Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon Hybrid
301 messages, Last post on Nov 23, 2009 at 10:58 AM
You are in the Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon Hybrid Forum. Your Host is pf_flyer
|
Replying to: galvang (Dec 14, 2007 10:55 pm) Hybrid 25K miles/20mpg = 1250 gallons of gas per year Non-Hybrid 25K miles/15mpg = 1666.66 gallons of gas per year 1250 gallons X $3.25/per gallon = $4062 per year in gas 1666 gallons X $3.25/per gallon = $5416 per year in gas So you save about $1400 a year in gas with a hybrid. If the price premium to a Hybrid versus a similar equipped non-hybrid is $10K then it would take a little over 6 years to recoup the gas savings vesus the cost of the Hybrid. That's if you purchase it. GM needs to lower the price premium. Three key points have to be made here as clarifications/additions 1) Until now we have all lived in times where the price of fuel has been constant for a long time if not our whole life. In your example you suggetst $3.25 / gallon forever, or at least the life of the vehicle. This idea of a 'constant fuel price' is all but dead. Here is a link to what the price of fuel has been doing over the last 5-8 yrs. INflation adjusted gas prices over the last 90 yrs A more valid scenario would be that fuel will escalate like all commodities do at some 'nominal' amount every year from now until it runs out sometime later this century. I think it's very conservaltive but use $.50/gall per year as a factor. If other economic/geo-political factors like an invasion of Iran occurs or massive demand from China and/or India or further devaluation of the US$ occurs then our personal fuel prices will escalate even faster. 2007 fuel will average about $3.00 per gal nationwide 2008 = $3.50 2009 = $4.00 2010 = 2011 = $5.00 2012 = 2013 = $6.00 2014 etc, etc 2020 = $9.00 - $10.00 per gallon If you own a verhicle for 5 yrs then you have to estimate that your average fuel cost will be $4.50. If you own it for 7 yrs your average cost will be $5.25 per gallon. If you own it for 10 yrs your average cost for those 10 yrs will be $5.75 per gallon. If you were/are a small business owner ( we all are to an extent ) then this is how you would forecast your decision to purchase one asset or another. 2) The pricing of the Tahoe/Yukon hybrid has been reported in a lot of places as being $10000 'extra', but it's not. Yes the prices of the current initial launch is very very high but if you look at what models are being offered as 2-Modes in fact GM is only offering the hybrid versions initially to their top end buyers. They are offering them to the ones that would normally pay $48000-$51000 for a loaded up LTZ trim. They are not offering them to the everyday Tahoe buyer. To the upscale buyer who's expecting to pay about $50000 for the Tahoe the 'premium is only about $3000-$5000. Again this is for the first year's launch of 10000 special units. Now 2-3 yrs down the road GM will have 'perfected' the model and received results from this initial launch so you can then expect to see a $40000 base 2-Mode vs a $36000 non-hybrid; a $44000 LT2 2-Mode vs an LT2 non-hybrid, etc, etc. At that point the entire range of buyers can 'do the math'. Right now it's only being directed to the top shelf buyers. If you are not a 'top-trim-buyer' then this vehicle is not for you, at least initially. That's why they aren't marketing it to the general public at first. 3) Resale. At some point from 7-12 yrs nearly all vehicles become worthless or have a nominal value if they still run, $2000. Up to that time though whether you keep it 3-5-7 yrs when you resell your 2-Mode you will recapture some of the 'hybrid premium' and if in 7 yrs fuel is $6.50 a gall or more then you might recapture all of it.. So the actual fact is that if you do a comparison of .. 2-Mode Tahoe  $53000 ICE Tahoe LTZ $49000 Factor in say.. 5 yrs of fuel at 15000 mpy $4.50 / gal on average OR 7 yrs of fuel at 15000 mpy $5.00 / gal on average Then deduct whatever a reasonable amount of resale 'recapture' at 5 yrs ( 33% ) or 7 yrs ( 10% ) Now your more realistic equation for these initial top-trim-buyers is A) Cost of Depreciation: 2-Mode .. $53000-$17500 = $35500 for the vehicle alone for 5 yrs non-hyb ..$49000-$16200 = $32800 for the vehicle alone for 5 yrs B) Cost of fuel 15000 mi / ( 20 mpg )or ( 16 mpg ) 2-Mode .. 5 X 750 X 4.50 = $16875 non-hyb ..5 X 938 X 4.50 = $21100 Cost of Depreciation + Cost of Fuel = 2-Mode .. $35500 + $16876 = $52375 non-hyb .. $32600 + $21100 = $53700 There is no such thing as a 'payback' or 'breakeven point' in these analyses. These are depreciating assets that generally generate no revenue, that at some time in the future are worthless and that we have to spend more and more money every year to keep them in use. The only valid comparison is what a small business would do. Estimate the total costs over a specific period or lifetime and see which one cost less.
|
|
|
Replying to: bbooze (Dec 15, 2007 11:45 am) First they are not on the market until the beginning of 2008. Secondly they are not intended for the general public. They are only making 10000 of them initially, all in the top trim level. If you are a top-trim-buyer and expecting to pay $50000 -$55000 for your Tahoe you will be able to go to certain stores and put in your order then it will be sent to you from the central inventory, probably in Michigan somewhere.
|
|
|
Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 16, 2007 7:46 am) Second, your numbers for the non-Hybrid are completely off the mark. The hybrid Tahoe officially is a $10,000 adder to an equivilent equiped non-hybrid version. This came from several direct GM sources while I was at the auto show in LA. Have you conversed with a direct GM corporate rep about this vehicle? I have. Also, your assumption of the Tahoe Hybrid equating to and LTZ model is absurd. I verified that the Tahoe Hybrid equates to a souped up LT in which for MSRP is about $45K. The LTZ model contains a large number of equipment that is not even offered in the hybrid. Additionally, a 2008 Tahoe non-hybrid comparebly equipped are being heavily discounted to about $40K-41K therefore, the price premium on the hybrid is even higher. As you are well aware of, GM will not intially give discounts to their Hybrids until their inventory begins to swell up. As for depreciation, it was in context of comparing leases to actual purchases not when individuals trade in their cars. Here is some sample leases, again this is a rough estimate it does not include Taxes, licence, maintienece or other incidental fees. Assume the following for both hybrid and non-hybrid: MSRP pricing, Money factor =8.00% or .0033, 36 month lease, depreciation of 61% after 3years, ok avg. cost of gas |
|
|
Replying to: galvang (Dec 17, 2007 9:47 pm) Total Lease Cost = Depreciation Financed + Lease Charge Tahoe Hybrid: Capital Cost = $53K Residual = Cap cost x Depreciation (3yrs) = 53K x 61% = $32330 Depreciation Financed = 53K - 32330 = $20670 or $ 574/month Lease Charge =(Depreciation financed + Cap Cost) x (Money Factor) Lease Charge= (20670 + 53k) x .0033 = $243/month or $8752 (3yrs) Total lease cost = 8752 + 20670 = $29422 or $817/mo Tahoe Non-H: Cap cost = 45K Residual = Cap cost x Depreciation (3yrs) = $45K x 61% = $27450 Depreciation Financed = 45K - 27450 = $17550 or $487/month Lease Charge = (Depriciation financed + Cap Cost) x (Money Factor) Lease Charge= (17550 + 45k) x .0033 = $206/month or $7430 (3yrs) Total Lease Cost = 7430 + 17550 = $24980or 694/mo Hybrid gas Cost is 15Kmiles(yr) / 20mpg = 750 Gallons x $3.75 gallon = $2812/yr Non H gas Cost is 15Kmiles(yr) / 15mpg = 1000 Gallns x $3.75 gallon = $3750/yr The difference in a 3yr lease is about $4500 so the amount to recoup in terms of gas is lesser with a lease assuming that the critical parameters for the lease is the same. In reality, dealers will probably charge higher money factors and/or lower residuals for the hybrids. These numbers could be skewed either way. For the money the Audi Q7 buys a much more advanced upscale vehicle than Tahoe/Yukon hybrid for the same price. I think that insect, spyder, just got swatted. 
|
|
|
Replying to: galvang (Dec 17, 2007 11:16 pm) The Mercedes is built in the USA for those that are worried about our auto industry. And the Mercedes has more leg room in the second row.
|
|
|
hybrid Tahoe has a 6.0L v8, leather seating, sunroof, NAV-DVD, running board standard. MSRP 50K traditional Tahoe has a 5.3L v8. MSRP 36K. I would assume upgrade 5.3->6.0 is 1.5K, Leather seating 1.5K, Sunroof: 1K NAV-DVD 4K. running board 0.5K. TaxCredit ??K It is reasonable to pay 5K premium for a Tahoe Hybrid. Tahoe 21/22 MPG, Mercedes GL 320 CDI 18/24 MPG, 3-5k more than Tahoe comparable MPG, and less capable.
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Dec 18, 2007 6:02 am) Not for sale (new) in CARB states. |
|
|
Replying to: fshi (Dec 18, 2007 7:44 am) Edmunds has the Tahoe Hybrid with an MSRP of $52,395. Add a sunroof and rear entertainment and the TMV is $55,246. That aside you lose 1900 lbs of towing capacity with the hybrid over the regular Denali. That would be the closest apples to apples comparison. That is about $5k difference. The loaded Denali has a TMV of $49,970. Something I noticed. The new hybrid still uses the old 4 speed auto instead of the 6 speed that is in the Denali. That seems strange.
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Dec 18, 2007 5:14 pm) What Do Tahoe, Camry Have In Common? Chicago Tribune By Jim Mateja Dec. 16, 2007 The Toyota Camry sedan and Chevy Tahoe SUV have something in common. Nope, not four-wheel-drive security or three rows of seats to hold seven or the ability to tow 6,200 pounds. Only Tahoe does that. The two share a 21 rating in city mileage. Surprise! Camry makes that with its 2.4-liter, 4-cylinder gas engine; Tahoe with its 6-liter, V-8 gas engine teamed with a battery pack that's new for 2008. Folks either have to start calling Tahoe fuel efficient or Camry a gas guzzler. Tahoe, of course, also offers a V-8 that swills a gallon every 14 miles while Camry offers a hybrid that sips a gallon in 40 miles. But the mileage rating on the Tahoe hybrid and 4-cylinder Camry show it's not easy to base a vehicle's mileage merits based solely on size. We tested the 2008 Tahoe hybrid that goes on sale in January. Chevy took no chances you wouldn't recognize it by plastering "Hybrid" decals on the doors and rear window and "Hybrid" badges on front and rear quarter panels Tahoe is a splendid SUV with lap-of-luxury ride that smoothes the ripples and dimples in the road. It's like strapping yourself into your favorite easy chair. Standard stability control with traction control, anti-lock brakes, side-curtain air bags and a camera to see what's behind when backing up cover all the safety bases. Seats are wide and well cushioned, controls at your fingertips and flip-and-fold second-row seats provide a wide aisle to the third row, where, sadly, room is tight and which leave precious little space for more than a couple small duffel bags in back. At least the seat backs fold flat to provide cargo room even if it costs you a couple passengers. But where Tahoe stands out is its dual-mode hybrid power. The Saturn Aura and Chevy Malibu sedans and Saturn Vue crossover offer a mild hybrid that shuts off the engine when coasting or sitting at the light. Child's play to Tahoe, which starts in gas mode, can drive at up to 32 m.p.h. on batteries before switching back to gas and gets a battery assist to pass, merge or climb. As a bonus, the 6-liter, 320-horsepower V-8 has active fuel management that shuts off 4 cylinders when cruising. To keep the driver in the loop, there's an "economy" gauge in the instrument panel with a solid green (green, get it?) line at 12 o'clock. If you don't stand on the accelerator, zip into and out of traffic and lead-foot the gas pedal, the needle stays at "noon" for optimum mileage. Another gauge under the tachometer in the IP shows instant mileage as well as whether in V-8 or V-4 mode. Activate the menu on the navigation screen and press "hybrid" and a schematic appears showing when in gas, batteries, or both, or, like the mild hybrid, when the gas engine shuts off. The gauges are more fun and informative than watching a map plot your two-block progress. But what better way to learn conservation than to practice waste. So we stood on the pedal and watched as the gauges and schematic showed we were getting 2 m.p.g on the way to 60 m.p.h. down the merge lane to Interstate 94 in V-8 mode. Once secure in the right lane and using the aluminum foot rather than lead, fuel economy varied between 24 and 28 m.p.g. in 4-cylinder mode. If it weren't for the digital display, we would never have suspected 4 rather than 8 cylinders were working. No sudden feeling that a chute just opened. Next test was side roads, where we were able to ride in battery mode up to 27 m.p.h. in a 25 zone. Chevy says a top speed of 32 m.p.h. is possible in battery mode on flat roads. We settled for 27 m.p.h. for about half a mile on a wavy road. Reaching 32 m.p.h. for a mile without burning a molecule of gas also was impossible because a minivan rode our bumper to make it known that speed limits, fuel conservation, global warming and the kids' safety were secondary to getting them to school by 9 a.m. Thanks to the gauges and schematics, Tahoe taught that high mileage takes more than a bunch of batteries and shutting off 4 cylinders. Add in light pedal pressure; flat roads (a 35 m.p.g. reading on a long, flat stretch); coasting, which brought 49 m.p.g. downhill; and fellow motorists who don't mind a vehicle puttering along at 27 m.p.h. One suggestion for Chevy: A small digital speedometer in the IP and devote the extra space devoted to incorporating the hybrid gauges/schematic into one big display. Seeing what wastes or conserves gas encourages habits that save it. The 2WD Tahoe rated at 14 m.p.g. city/20 m.p.g. highway starts at about $38,000; the 4WD rated at 14/20 at about $39,000. The 2WD hybrid rated at 21/22 starts at $49,590; the 4WD rated at 20/20 at $50,045. So up to 7 m.p.g. more for about $10,000 more. Not really since such popular items as navi system, back-up camera, leather seats, power pedals and running boards are standard. But Chevy won't break out the price premium. Micky Bly, director of hybrid vehicles for GM, says the Cadillac Escalade SUV and Chevy Silverado/GMC Sierra pickups are next up for the dual-mode technology in 2009.
|
|
|
Replying to: kdhspyder (Dec 16, 2007 7:50 am)
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Hybrid Vehicles Chevrolet Tahoe and GMC Yukon Hybrid Chevy Tahoe/GMC Yukon Hybrid
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
2010 Chevrolet Tahoe Hybrid
2010 GMC Yukon Hybrid
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
