Last post on Oct 21, 2013 at 3:20 PM
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Acura TL, Sedan
#955 of 2002 Does anybody else think Honda is losing it?
Sep 27, 2008 (9:08 pm)
I've been a Honda fan for a long time. Bought a new 1992 Accord (great car). I always valued Hondas for reliability, sportiness, steering feel, and driving agility.
I bought a 1998 Audi A4, a car that inspired real passion. It was a wonderful car, but not as reliable as a Honda. When the family got bigger I got rid of it and got a 2005 Acura TL.
My '05 TL has been very reliable. It's comfortable, it has a lot of great goodies, it gets great gas mileage. But I'd say that it's almost too big, it's suspension is floaty. The auto transmission has about a half second of hesitation when you need to punch it fast in an urgent situation. I've had loaner TSX's (previous model) and I LOVE the size and handling of the TSX.
So recently at a service I got a *brand new model* TSX loaner. It's bigger and IMHO it's lost some of its charm. I don't find it any more appealing than the previous model - it's gotten too big.
Now look at the new TL. I haven't driven it or even seen one, but my TL is already borderline boat status. The last thing I want is a bigger car.
Look at the new Accord. Vs. the previous model it is HUGE. And my 1992 Accord handled great, had great steering and suspension. My TL is more of a boat and floatier than the '92 Accord.
It just seems that Honda is moving more toward Toyota all the time - bigger, softer. It's got me looking more at Mazda instead. We have a Mazda 5, which is a micro minivan based upon the Mazda 3. The Mazda 5 is *shorter* than my TL, but even though it has much less power it handles better! That Mazda suspension is awesome!
So while I admire Honda I hope they quit straying so far from their roots.
Sep 27, 2008 (9:38 pm)
The current 3G TL in certainly no family hauler. I appreciate the fact it has grown up a little bit. I appreciate the extra space and larger trunk. Will that outweigh the looks. I don't know but I will still keep it on my list. I'm glad the TL has grown bigger. My family members grow bigger in size and height so if I can stay with a TL during this I would be happy.
#957 of 2002 Re: Quick test drive: FWD 09 TL [traumeri]
Sep 27, 2008 (9:59 pm)
You're asking an Acura salesman for his unbiased opinion?
#958 of 2002 Re: Does anybody else think Honda is losing it? [tlong]
Sep 27, 2008 (10:10 pm)
Wow! My thoughts exactly....on the TL, the new TSX, the Toyota-ization of Honda products in general. I love the styling of my '04 TL; it's got all the room I need, it's smooth, comfortable and reasonably fast. But it's kind of boring to drive. It's more cruiser than bruiser, and the steering is numb-ish. Unless I absolutely need the room, I prefer to drive my wife's Mini, despite it's meagre 118 hp.
#959 of 2002 2009 TL lease questions.
Sep 27, 2008 (11:17 pm)
I started a thread for this but it looks like there is a lot of activity here so I thought I would put it here also.
Has anyone put together a lease yet on the new TL. The Acura website has offered this featured lease and I was looking for input on either it or any other leases out there. I am looking for a lease with the tech package specifically.
2009 TL Featured Standard Lease
$419.00 per month for 36 months. $3,699.00 total due at signing.
FEATURED LEASE: Closed-end lease for 2009 TL with Automatic Transmission (Model UA8629JW) for $419.00 per month for 36 months with a $2,685.00 capitalized cost reduction available to customers who qualify for the AHFC Super Preferred credit tier. Other rates/tiers are available under this offer. $3,699.00 total due at lease signing (includes first month's payment, AHFC upfront acquisition fee, capitalized cost reduction, with no security deposit. Security deposit waived in featured lease example. Total net capitalized cost and base monthly payment does not include tax, license, title, registration, documentation fees, options, insurance and the like). Not all buyers may qualify.
Subject to limited availability. From 9/24/2008 through 10/8/2008, to approved lessees by American Honda Finance Corp. Closed end lease for 2009 TL with Automatic Transmission (Model UA8629JW), for well qualified lessees. Not all lessees will qualify. Higher lease rates apply for lessees with lower credit ratings. MSRP $35,715.00 (includes destination) less the suggested dealer contribution resulting in actual net capitalized cost $32,957.93. Dealer contribution may vary and could affect actual lease payment. Taxes, license, title fees, options and insurance extra. Total monthly payments $15,084.00. Option to purchase at lease end $23,571.90. Lessee responsible for maintenance, excessive wear/tear and 15 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year for vehicles with MSRP less than $30,000, but for vehicles with MSRP of $30,000 or more, mileage cost is 20 cents/mi. over 10,000 miles/year. See dealer for complete details.
#960 of 2002 Re: Quick test drive: FWD 09 TL [laurasdada]
Sep 28, 2008 (5:14 am)
laurasdada.....bvd.....as we've seen in the posts here, the re-design is polarizing. There are some things I like about it. There are other things, while I don't hate them (the beak), I don't love them either.
But, I can probably say that about any car I've ever bought.
One thing's for certain, you won't mistake the new TL with anything else on the road....even other Honda/Acura products.
IMHO....as I stated before, the performance is in the ballpark of both the BMW 3 and the Infiniti G. TL trumps the BMW on features, space and price. There are some pretty crazy deals I've seen on the G. Based on the deals I've seen, there could be as much as a $4K-$5K swing in the Gs favor on price. Even more of a swing to the Gx's favor compared to the TL-SH- AWD version. That is, until they start discounting the TL (maybe next year....maybe sooner, depending on whether the new TL gets off to a slow or fast start in sales).
But, the TL trumps the G on interior room and interior style/quality of materials.
Strange....I didn't see one RL on the dealer's lot....NOT ONE! I can't imagine they're selling that well. I would imagine that the SH-AWD of the RL isn't going to be the big differentiator any more with the TL getting the same running gear when its SH-AWD version hits the showroom.
While, I'm not going to be in the market for awhile, if prices ever recover on my Tahoe (not likely), then the TL and G will be on my shopping list to replace it.
If the TL is being discounted by then, I'd probably lean towards it. If not, then the G may get the nod and I'll pocket the extra $5K.
laurasdada....I almost pulled the trigger on an A6 a few years ago. Lovely interiors. But, the room in the TL would almost match the A6. I've only seen the new A4s a couple of times. But, I agree the A5 is quite the looker....at least from the pictures I've seen. But, either perception or reality, I'm a little skittish about VW/Audi reliability. I've heard some owners say their Audis have been bulletproof. I've heard as many say that their ownership experience has been problematic. Then again, I hear the same thing from Benz owners, too.
The overall impression from my seat time in the new TL, is that Acura has taken it a step upmarket (kind of like what Honda's done with the Accord) from the previous version.
The last TL I had ('04) I think I paid around $33K for, with Nav. 5 years later, the new one is better in every way. But, is it $7K better? I'd have to spend more time in the car to determine that. I could probably swallow a $3K difference and feel good about it.
What's most tempting would be any of the '08 TL-Ss that are left I could pick up for $32.5K. Those are almost all gone, though.
At $34K-$35K, the '09 TL/tech would be a great buy. Whether they get to that level during their run remains to be seen. At $40K? Not so much....particularly since you can get a totally loaded Gx for much less than that.
aj.....I've never known Acura to have any great lease deals....at least not like BMW offers. My opinion is you lease a BMW. You BUY an Acura.
#961 of 2002 Re: Quick test drive: FWD 09 TL [graphicguy]
Sep 28, 2008 (12:53 pm)
"But, the TL trumps the G on interior room and interior style/quality of materials. "
Exactly one of the several qualities that led me to buy the TL over the '05 G...
Yes, buying European does give me pause. But, I drove Chrysler products from ~1995-2005 (company Intrepid, then I bought a '99 300M) and neither, while not near the build quality of Japan, cost me any out of warranty money (well, because the AC went on the Dodge about 2k miles after warranty, the dealer did me a favor and ruled that it happened in warranty! Thank you for saving me $1k+!). So, I think I'm ready to take a chance on BMW/MB/Audi/Jag.
A coworker has an '06 A4. He puts a lot of miles on it, long commute so he's already out of warranty. Unfortunately, he's had to shell out some $$$... Another co-worker had to put a new engine in his wife's '02 BMW 330 convertible. BMW claims she ignored warnings regarding the cooling system, she claims no such warnings were offered... But a neighbor has an '02 A4 w/130k+ miles. Other than routine/expected maintenance (which I'm not sure that he does!), it's still tickin'...
You should check out the A5 in person. Pix just don't show the true beauty of D'Silva's design...
#962 of 2002 Re: Quick test drive: FWD 09 TL [graphicguy]
Sep 28, 2008 (2:20 pm)
>TL trumps the BMW on features, space, and price.
I'm sure it's less expensive than the 3 series. I really don't know if it has more and/or better features. That statement sounds quite subjective and I would guess that a BMW enthusiast (I'm not one of them) would disagree with you.
And while it does somewhat trump the 3 series on space, it does so at a huge price. The TL has one more inch of front legroom, about 1 1/2 more more inches of rear legroom, and one more cubic foot of cargo space than the '09 BMW 3 series sedan. The problem is that the '09 3 series sedan is 178.2 inches long, 71.5 inches wide, and weighs close to 3,350 pounds. The '09 TL is 195.5 inches long, 74 inches wide, and weighs just about 3,700 pounds. So in order to get that small increase in legroom and trunk capacity, you end up with a car that's over 17 inches longer, 2 1/2 inches wider, and close to 350 pounds heavier.
Considering that increasing the exterior size and weight of the TL has resulted in such an extremely small increase in interior space, I personally would much prefer the smaller car with the "trumped" amount of space.
#963 of 2002 Re: Quick test drive: FWD 09 TL [sekitori]
Sep 28, 2008 (6:26 pm)
"Considering that increasing the exterior size and weight of the TL has resulted in such an extremely small increase in interior space, I personally would much prefer the smaller car with the "trumped" amount of space"
My feeling exactly! The '09 TL is no doubt mechanically and dynamically superior to the '08, but, as I said from day 1, it is over-sized and over-styled.
#964 of 2002 Re: Quick test drive: FWD 09 TL [sekitori]
Sep 29, 2008 (6:15 am)
sek....I'm a former 3 series owner (current platform). Unless you're going to get a 328i, with few options, the price of something like a 335i, equipped "like-for-like" with the TL, you're looking at $50K for the BMW.
That's a tough pill to swallow for a compact sports sedan. Granted, a 335i is sweet. I've driven one briefly. I will say, hands down, the feature content in the TL works better, is designed better, operates better, than the same features in the 3 series.
But, as you say, it depends on what you want. I haul people in my vehicles all the time. So, the extra room in the TL is welcomed. I'm willing to forgo the few extra tenths in 0-60 and 1/4 mile times to get that room. From a subjective standpoint, the TL "feels" bigger on the inside than my former 3 series.
Styling as always, is subjective, too. I've heard some who damn the "Banglized" versions of every BMW currently on the market. Just like I've heard some Acura fanatics "damn" the redesign of the current TL. Personally, the current BMW style didn't bother me nearly as much as it did other people. Same goes for the TL. I like the rear and profile view of the TL. The front end, I can take or leave.
Just the opposite was true on my BMW. I didn't like the rear styling of it. Front end was fine, though.
Starting with the 3G TL, it was clear that Acura was going "edgier" styling. That trend continued with the 4G.
Do I wish that Acura had designed a RWD TL? Sure. But, I understand what they're trying to do . I applaud them for exorcising the FWD demons that plagued my '04 TL. They did a hell of a job. Dynamically, the '09 TL feels like it's entering another realm, maybe a notch above where the 3G TL was.
Different strokes for different folks, though.
This is a hotbed of the segment, where there are a lot of good players. CTS, BMW 3 series, Infiniti G, Acrua TL, Audi A4 or 5, Benz C class. I won't even get into the Lexus players (IS & ES). The IS is too cramped for what I'd use it for. The ES is too soft for what I prefer. Mercedes in my book will always play 2nd fiddle to BMW.
The TL (even my '04) didn't trump any other car in any one particular category. It's the whole package....the performance, the dynamics, the feature content, the build and material quality, the reliability, etc....as an entire package, at the price point, that becomes the selling point.
Once they start discounting it, (I'm thinking to somewhere in the $35K-$36K for a tech package), it will be tough to beat. Closest would be the G.
Right now....today...given you can get a Gx with NAV for low-mid $30s, that probably would be my choice. But, I'd prefer the extra room in the 4G TL, if it gets to that price point.
larasdada....I'll make it a point to seek out an A5. As I said, from what I've seen, it's a sharp looking car. I always expect Audis to handle and perform well, so that should be a given.