- #61 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [paisan]
by xrunner2
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May 10, 2007 (6:25 am)
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Replying to: paisan (May 09, 2007 10:17 am)
My point being that the test mules and "stock" cars often have varying tires, so even though a concensus of articles may say "poor handling" it may be due to the fact that they all pulled from the same exact fleet of "press cars" and/or ones with inherintly poor stock tires.
If everyone says poor handling on a vehicle, and backs it up with test data, it is indeed representative of how the mfr has equipped the car. Further, if CR also says poor handling, what more opinion does one need. CR supposedly buys its cars anonymously from dealers and therefore is less likely to get fooled with a possible "setup" car that might be given to some popular car magazine testers.
Would think that experienced race car builders could take any car and do susp, brake and tire mods on it to make it perform much better in measured tests than a car right off of the showroom floor. However, the level playing field for comparing car performance ought to be using cars that are stock right off of the showroom floor or dealer's lot.
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- #62 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [xrunner2]
by paisan
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May 10, 2007 (7:03 am)
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Replying to: xrunner2 (May 10, 2007 6:25 am)
While I agree, tires are an item where a lot of manufacturers skimp on or dumb down for various reasons. Ride quality and cost being to two most popular reasons for OEM tire choices. So you can blame the manufacturer all you want but if a simple (and I consider changing tires about as simple as you can get for a car mod) tire change can elevate a cars handling above the OEM tires, then you should choose that car. In other words look deeper than the OEM tires to see which car truely handles better, rather than relying on magazines or other's test of the cars that may or may not truely exemplify the cars handling characteristics.
On the CR thing, their writeups are 99% directed toward safety, reliability and rarely if ever speak to the fun, handling or other factors. Not to mention I've seen them rate 2 cars that are clones very differently, which makes no sense whatsover!
-mike
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- #63 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [paisan]
by hauss
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May 10, 2007 (11:42 am)
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Replying to: paisan (May 10, 2007 7:03 am)
Mike, when you go to the dealer to test drive a new car you've little choice to the tires on it unless the manufacturer offers the vehicle that way. In nearly every case you'll be driving a 100% stock car. No dealer is going to put on a special set of tires for you test the vehicle. By your own logic if the car has lousy tires on it stock then it'll never be the better handling vehicle during a test drive. So, stating that buyers should take into account those things when making a purchase is not realistic. Most drivers cannot tell that the tires are what is making the handling suffer and most drivers are not just going to throw away stock tires for high performance ones the day they pick up their car. Most people drive their car stock so there is some validity to the auto publication tests. All those drivers are going to know is that one car handled better than the other regardless of the tires on it.
Also, let me ask you this? Does your own company, Edmunds.com, consider all those factors you mentioned when doing slalom and skidpad tests on new cars and making judgments on them? My guess is that they are no different than all the other auto publications out there.
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- #64 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [hauss]
by paisan
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May 10, 2007 (6:39 pm)
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Replying to: hauss (May 10, 2007 11:42 am)
Very valid points. But look a few posts above, where I point out if you are spending $40k on a car you should try to get a good weekend test drive or get in touch with people who already own the car and may have aftermarket tires on it. A 10 minute test drive in a car from a dealer is in no way way to make a $40k purchase, in my opinion anyway.
And yes, Edmunds probably tests a stock version like the others, not saying they are any better or worse, of course I'm not in the test drive department or I'd spend about $500 for new tires every time I tested a car, then sell em for like $300 afterward 
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
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- #65 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [paisan]
by paisan
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May 10, 2007 (6:43 pm)
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Replying to: paisan (May 10, 2007 6:39 pm)
Also if you are the type of person driving a stock car on bad OEM tires, then you probably aren't the type that would be pushing it anywhere near the limits where the true hard-core handling will effect your driving experience. In other words if you don't know the tires are bad OEM ones comparing handling between cars in the same class (Acura TL v. G35) is not going to make a difference because they are both well beyond where you'll push the car.
-mike
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- #66 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [hauss]
by pat HOST
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May 11, 2007 (9:10 am)
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Replying to: hauss (May 10, 2007 11:42 am)
Just to keep the record straight, hosts don't have anything to do with what the Edmunds editors test or write. We are an entirely separate entity. 
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- #67 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [pat]
by paisan
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May 11, 2007 (9:24 am)
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Replying to: pat (May 11, 2007 9:10 am)
Oh yeah forgot to mention that, yeah the carspace folks aren't involved in the main edmunds stuff.
-mike
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- #68 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [paisan]
by autoboy16
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May 11, 2007 (5:52 pm)
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Replying to: paisan (May 11, 2007 9:24 am)
That sounds like it suxs... So you guys/gals technically fit under "Internet security"... Do you guys get to see anything that goes on? Long term car testing?
-Cj
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- #69 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [autoboy16]
by paisan
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May 11, 2007 (6:06 pm)
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Replying to: autoboy16 (May 11, 2007 5:52 pm)
Nada, zippo, zero. Same as everyone else on carspace  just like you guys.
-mike
Motorsports and Tuning Host
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- #70 of 1532
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Re: 2009 Acura TL [paisan]
by autoboy16
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May 13, 2007 (4:20 am)
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Replying to: paisan (May 11, 2007 6:06 pm)
 
-Cj
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